Boost vs Cubes vs The Budget

I'm still in the process of mapping out the finer points of my 460 build and I am at the point where I am trying to make the decision between adding extra cubes in the form of a stroker kit or if I should add some smallish turbos to the setup, so here I am asking for as much input as I can get. The parts I already have are a D1VE block, a D9TE block, Edlebrock Victor intake (4500 pad), D0VE builder heads, D2VE builder heads (more like home porting practice heads), D3VE heads ready to go and that is about it so far (other priorities and whatnot). I figure it will cost roughly the same for a stroker kit as it would for a set of turbos and the necessary plumbing and tuning to make it go, the big difference is that I can add the turbos to the engine after it's already built whereas the stroker kit is pretty much the starting point of the build. I'm not looking to do crazy bumper stands or knock down the 9 second door, just add a bit more power and perhaps squeeze a little extra MPG out of the motor at the same time. Initially I had wanted to build an all motor 600ish HP 460, but as time has passed the plan changes here and there until now I am looking at boost or more cubes.

Boost can get pretty in depth if you aren't up to speed on what it will take to tune and run it properly, where as the extra cubes are pretty straight forward. Turbos will require some extra thought and fab work to install, and route the intake and exhaust, but they sure do make a lot of power when done right. For just a simple deal looking for medium range power like you are after, I'd think you might be better off with the extra cubes and stay away from the turbos.

OR put a 8-14/71 Blower on it

A 460" turbo motor done with quality (Not Ebay Turbos) parts will cost more than a 557" N/A motor with a stroker kit.

However your bottle neck in the N/A motor is enough head to make any real power, with out a substantial amount of $$ put into them. Even with some big time money in them your still leaving alot on the table over a set of aftermarket heads.

IMO A 466", Stock Crank, Hbeam Rod, Dish Forged (TRW / Probe Type), utilizing the dove heads, Blow thru carb on the victor you have, with a Quality single turbo, should be able to do 675-700hp with about 7-8 lbs of boost and run on pump gas with ease.

The smaller inches will work better IMO than a big inch motor with the heads you have avaliable, even with the turbo.

just seen a stock block procomp headed single turbo deal over on the bullet than ran some 8.50's at 169.................

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/diy-and-junkyard-turbo-tech/some-info-on-gt45-y2004k-china-turbo-(new-pics)/ Read this thread all the way through. There is a guy with a twin turbo nova in there that you should see.

From what I have been reading (and seeing what other people have done) I should be well served using a turbo off of a 7.3 Power Stroke. The fab work is gonna suck for the exhaust but it'll be worth it once it's all said and done I think. I plan on having a 3 pass a/a intercooler mounted right in front of the radiator on the passengers side and a remote oil cooler mounted on the drivers side. I'm somewhat up in the air (so to speak) on the fuel delivery, on one hand a blow through carb is easy and effective but takes much needed space on top of the intake while port injection is compact and more precisely tunable but costs a small fortune and adds more wires and complexity to the setup. The overall plan is to build an engine that could make about 500hp on it's own and then throw the turbo at it with about 7psi and see where that lands me.

I have A LOT more reading to do but that's to be expected, lol.

Now as for the connecting rods, would I be better served by reconditioning one of the stock sets that I have or should I just man up and get some forged H beams? I seem to remember a few people saying that a set of stockers, properly reconditioned, can handle somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 HP with lite forged pistons, please correct me if I'm wrong though.

If you are only after 750hp, there is no way you should feel the need for any type of power adder. I used to use D0VE headed 514cid motors that made that with a stock block and a cast crank. You can make more than that now, with a whole lot better parts.

That was back when 5.13s in a 1850lb draster was the cats meow!

Curt wrote:If you are only after 750hp, there is no way you should feel the need for any type of power adder. I used to use D0VE headed 514cid motors that made that with a stock block and a cast crank. You can make more than that now, with a whole lot better parts.

That was back when 5.13s in a 1850lb draster was the cats meow!

True, I CAN go ahead and make the 750 all motor but then I am looking at feeding it race gas/alcohol and that doesn't exactly work out so well on a car that I want to drive to the track, swap out the rear tires, get a few good passes in, swap the rear tires again, and drive home in the same car. I also would like to do road courses and some day possibly even Pikes Peak .

torkair wrote: I want to drive to the track, swap out the rear tires, get a few good passes in, swap the rear tires again, and drive home in the same car. I also would like to do road courses and some day possibly even Pikes Peak .

Curt wrote:

torkair wrote: I want to drive to the track, swap out the rear tires, get a few good passes in, swap the rear tires again, and drive home in the same car. I also would like to do road courses and some day possibly even Pikes Peak .

Ya, I have a lot of things I want to do, probably won't do half of them but it's good to have goals.

Curt wrote:If you are only after 750hp, there is no way you should feel the need for any type of power adder. I used to use D0VE headed 514cid motors that made that with a stock block and a cast crank. You can make more than that now, with a whole lot better parts.

That was back when 5.13s in a 1850lb draster was the cats meow!

I would like to know why you feel cubes would be better than boost. I'm not disagreeing with you that it is possible I just want to know why, I need as much info as I can get and I feel that you have more than enough to back it up.

On a side note, I've been looking at how much abuse a set of stock connecting rods can take before they become a liability. If they can hold past 750 hp then I don't see any reason to change them but if there is even the slightest hesitation then forged H beams will be added to the built without question.

Edit: Also, depending on cost vs. benefit I may just have the crank offset ground for some of the other forged connecting rod options and grab a few cubes that way while reducing bearing speed at the connecting rod.

IMO what your after is easily obtainable n/a w a stroker deal, by no means would I use a stock rod..................the H beams are pretty much the same $$$ for a stock length vs a longer unit for a stroker. That and the stuff thats out there now is not overly priced that one would need to offset grind a factory crank etc................20 some years ago maybe, but not by todays standards. I say a n/a deal is still gonna be cheaper than a boost application, packaging easier etc.

Low budget ... high budget??? Saying the word "budget" just tells people that you have one and the build is not "whatever it costs".

I don't know of any inexpensive turbo or supercharger kits of any brand.

torkair wrote:

I would like to know why you feel cubes would be better than boost. I'm not disagreeing with you that it is possible I just want to know why, I need as much info as I can get and I feel that you have more than enough to back it up.

On a side note, I've been looking at how much abuse a set of stock connecting rods can take before they become a liability. If they can hold past 750 hp then I don't see any reason to change them but if there is even the slightest hesitation then forged H beams will be added to the built without question.

Edit: Also, depending on cost vs. benefit I may just have the crank offset ground for some of the other forged connecting rod options and grab a few cubes that way while reducing bearing speed at the connecting rod.

It's pretty simple, look at the cost, the packaging, maintenance and which would be more dependable in a racing application.

Curt wrote:

torkair wrote:

I would like to know why you feel cubes would be better than boost. I'm not disagreeing with you that it is possible I just want to know why, I need as much info as I can get and I feel that you have more than enough to back it up.

On a side note, I've been looking at how much abuse a set of stock connecting rods can take before they become a liability. If they can hold past 750 hp then I don't see any reason to change them but if there is even the slightest hesitation then forged H beams will be added to the built without question.

Edit: Also, depending on cost vs. benefit I may just have the crank offset ground for some of the other forged connecting rod options and grab a few cubes that way while reducing bearing speed at the connecting rod.

It's pretty simple, look at the cost, the packaging, maintenance and which would be more dependable in a racing application.

After a bit of poking around the stroker route is definitely the more cost effective route to take, there is no extra plumbing or excessive engine heat and there is also the fact that I wouldn't need to add other electronic components to the system just so I could get a good tune on the thing. With that being said I have the 2 different blocks to work with, the D9TE (from what I have read here) is externally balanced and has longer cylinder skirts (as well as a slightly taller deck), meanwhile the D1VE block is internally balanced and has a slightly shorter deck, so which block should I go with?

I am considering a 4.15" stroke combo right now but seeing as I haven't gone out and bought a rotating assembly yet I may end up changing my mind on this as well.

Either block will serve your purpose.

I figure I will go with the D1VE block first, from there stuff a 4.15 stroker kit in it, bolt on the D3VE heads after the ports have been cleaned up a tad bit and port matched to the Victor. Now should I go 6.7" or 6.8" rods and once I pick a rod length what pistons will I want in order to achieve a 9.5:1 CR with the D3 heads? And the last bit would be cam selection, I'll be running a stick shift (T56) and 3.50 rear gears in a 72 Gran Torino which I hope to have a full interior in.

If you change your mind im still around just dont get on the comp much you can call anytime and ask about turbo stuff..208-512-4907

i prefer both big cubes and turboooossss I agree that stroker is more cost effective, I have been battling that same subject for awile now and just said screw it, going to do both. Car just wont be out for about a year as I put it all together. just have fun with it.

The main problem I found when researching turbos on a Big Block is that there is a lot of TECH available for 1200 to 1800 HP big block turbos but there is miniscule TECH available for 750 HP to 900 HP big block turbos.

Most of the dealers you will talk to will want to relate to small block turbo applications and you will get wildly different opinions on turbo sizing.