Ford Thunder thoughts and ideas.....

Dave De wrote:This was my first time out to any BBF bash. When I arrived at the track I was not impressed. Friday evening I realized that the track madeup for its short comings by our club and the people that run the track.
Now planning for the future there must be other groups like us that are struggling to put it together. If we could partner up with another group and race against that group at a better track there would be more participation? We need a number of each that would make it practical for track rental. This would be easier on the organizers where the work efforts could be split on both sides. We could even pit on one side of the track.
I can say this when I live in Michigan and not organize but looking at the participation dropping every year something will need to be done in a radical way or its going away on its own in spite of the fantastic work done by the organizers.

Dave,I agree that a combined deal should work. I attended the FE reunion in may @ a small track in Pa, about the size of US60. The closest towns were about 15 mi. away. This race was promoted very well @ Ford swap, Jegs Columbus locations and other race news outlets.There were more than 100 race cars/trucks + A HUGE show car field.There were racers there from as far away as California,British Columbia,Florida and Texas. If we could maybe get w/the FE guys and create a combined race . I think US60 is a great centrally located location. I think early June or early Oct. would be perfect for weather. There are Lots of Ford racers out there that want to get together if we can find away to find out how to draw us all together.

I think it is important to keep it central like Tn and in the spring or fall. I'm sure it must be very hard to pick a date that doesn't overlap into some other event but that can be a killer for an event like this.

More important is that you keep doing it for several more years before giving up. I'm sure not every event started out as a huge success in the first year or two. People are always going to have other commitments so while people may have good intentions some will not make it.   

jasonf wrote:I think it is important to keep it central like Tn and in the spring or fall. I'm sure it must be very hard to pick a date that doesn't overlap into some other event but that can be a killer for an event like this.

More important is that you keep doing it for several more years before giving up. I'm sure not every event started out as a huge success in the first year or two. People are always going to have other commitments so while people may have good intentions some will not make it.   

Jason I agree I don't think we need to give up. Also that Ky, Mo or Ten is about as central location as you can get. We are getting a new track built in Bonne Terre Mo, that is on I55 just out of St Louis. So plenty of motels in the area. Maybe what we could do is a rotation between the tracks to see which works the best. I also agree with Rick. If we could get some of the FE guys to come that would be great. I think that that could be kinda interesting to maybe make it like a 385 vs FE. At least we would be all Ford. Maybe Cody or others could get on the FE forum and see about the interest.

Simple.

Spring or fall race.

Include the FE guys so that it can be a true all BBF race.

Beechbend is the best track for this and is very affordable. Camping, restaurants, etc... We could do some 1/4 stuff also at this track. I'll help organize it if you like. I'll even fatten the purse.

We need to get on the schedule for 2015 NOW.

Let me know. 615-476-9100

738drvr wrote:Simple.

Spring or fall race.

Include the FE guys so that it can be a true all BBF race.

Beechbend is the best track for this and is very affordable. Camping, restaurants, etc... We could do some 1/4 stuff also at this track. I'll help organize it if you like. I'll even fatten the purse.

We need to get on the schedule for 2015 NOW.

Let me know. 615-476-9100

Now you are talking. Basically what I was trying to say, you said it better. I would drive from CA to go to a race like that.

since the FE guys are in the picture , I know of a guy local that has 2 lightweight galaxie 427 cars . I will mention to him about that if it goes official or in the plans of the future . He is apart of some racing club thats light weights and thunderbolts

He know a lot of fe guys , goes to carlisle meet Lightweights and thunderbolts . One of his cars was sold at Tasca ford in Providence Ri when new to boot

just another idea ....im not sure of the cars or the drawer but more and more of them out there . Could add a new modular Cobra jet shoot out seems to be a good amount out there now .

738drvr wrote:Simple.

Spring or fall race.

Include the FE guys so that it can be a true all BBF race.

Beechbend is the best track for this and is very affordable. Camping, restaurants, etc... We could do some 1/4 stuff also at this track. I'll help organize it if you like. I'll even fatten the purse.

We need to get on the schedule for 2015 NOW.

Let me know. 615-476-9100

Sounds great to me.
Beech Bend has pretty much a full schedule all season, but there are some Saturdays that are open during the day.
They like their regular Sunday program tho.
However, someone could get creative and figure out how to "piggyback" these special events.

I would think Dallas would be receptive to the idea of picking one of those weekends where they only have their reg. Sat. night and Sunday daytime bracket program and work in the Ford special races.

bbf-falcon wrote:

Dave De wrote:This was my first time out to any BBF bash. When I arrived at the track I was not impressed. Friday evening I realized that the track madeup for its short comings by our club and the people that run the track.
Now planning for the future there must be other groups like us that are struggling to put it together. If we could partner up with another group and race against that group at a better track there would be more participation? We need a number of each that would make it practical for track rental. This would be easier on the organizers where the work efforts could be split on both sides. We could even pit on one side of the track.
I can say this when I live in Michigan and not organize but looking at the participation dropping every year something will need to be done in a radical way or its going away on its own in spite of the fantastic work done by the organizers.

Dave,I agree that a combined deal should work. I attended the FE reunion in may @ a small track in Pa, about the size of US60. The closest towns were about 15 mi. away. This race was promoted very well @ Ford swap, Jegs Columbus locations and other race news outlets.There were more than 100 race cars/trucks + A HUGE show car field.There were racers there from as far away as California,British Columbia,Florida and Texas. If we could maybe get w/the FE guys and create a combined race . I think US60 is a great centrally located location. I think early June or early Oct. would be perfect for weather. There are Lots of Ford racers out there that want to get together if we can find away to find out how to draw us all together.

YES Rick.
Robotnick and those "Survival" guys set a date and gave the track a deposit for that date, a year ahead of time so it could be promoted and flyers given out at swap meets and such with little adds in all the free race media.
BE the FIRST to present a date and make your outing THE place to be, eventually.

Realistically, You can not wait till February to set and promote a date and location then actually expect to get a good turn-out in the first week of June. Some of us can be very flexible with our time but, most people can't.

EDIT:  You can not wait for all the other schedules to come out first, then try to placate everyone; it just ain't gonna happen that way.
George did a GREAT job considering all those hardships he was presented with.

I'm not sure what I have to say is important. I didn't make it the last two yrs. I've never had a worse run of luck with race cars in my life. I had pretty much a total loss with my fox body crash.I had a trans mission left and the planatery was bad in it. I can't seem to get this new car sorted out. I ran out of time and money. That is not a excuse,just the way it has been for me. I'm 48 yrs old and don't need a excuse.I'm not sure how it is in other areas but it seems that everything breaks loose and starts happening around here around the end of may and into June. Might look at fall date ? I agree with Les, move it closer to me and it is futher for someone else. The ones that it is futher away for it is harder for them to get there. Just the way it is. I said a couple yrs back I could get the track here but most said it was too far. That goes both ways. We might take a look and find what is the most centeral location. I don't care if there is any money handed out at the end. I can find a race for money any week end. If you expect a big pay out then expect a big entry fee. Haven't seen track y'all raced at but it sounds like most local tracks. Couldn't be any worse than some around here. I know George and he is a great guy, I know they worked very hard to put this deal together.No one should dish him or the track. I'm not sure what has gone on but it seems there have been issues starting at the race at US 43. Think the true issue must have started before that. There were charter members who lived live less than 1/2 as far as did from that event that did not attend. I've not only been concerned about the race but the board in general. Not much traffic, lots of arguing and hurt feeling's. Not good natured stuff but agressive and mean spirited attacks. I think we need to look futher than just the race. Part of the problem with the race is that overall particapation on the board is way down.
I don't want to see this stuff go away. I have good friends here and try to be a good friend when I can. What I said may step on some toes. That is the way I see it and what is true. I just refuse to call out names. It didn't involve me personaly.It has had a big effect on the board. If the board is going to do more than flounder around some of this will have to be resolved. You are welcome to delete this post, toss me from the board whatever . That is just the way I see it.

no reason to feel bad for not going, sometimes things happen where you cant make it.

it is what it is.

When I called Beechbend for the other board a couple years ago, the idea was to piggy back on an existing Fri/Sat race, then have the track all to ourselves on Sunday for qualifying and eliminations.    People could arrive Friday, get some runs in, TNT on Saturday, then be ready for the Sunday event.   Also, by having racing over 3 days, people were willing to driver further.  You have racing just on one day, for 8 hours, then you would be hard pressed to get anyone to show up that lives more then just a few hours away.

And just to be clear, I am knocking the race at all. As I said earlier you guys have already done better then I could, as you have had the race for a number of years. Just answering the OP.

#1. you will never duplicate the family feeling of windy hollow.
#2. if you want a crowd get some sponsors, advertise, location and plan ahead
#3. I apologize to everyone from being absent from the board, I feel like its my fault and responsibility for not helping out with the events/races.
#4. Everybody has valid points on this subject , we just need to prepare for the next one and have more then one individual put this event together.


Miss you guys
Nick

^^^^^ slacker

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^^^ you wouldn't rent it for two days.  Only 1.  You would piggy back off of an existing even for Fri/Sat.

I got an estimate of $5K two years ago + track gets revenue from food/drink etc.

psfracer wrote:^^^ you wouldn't rent it for two days.  Only 1.  You would piggy back off of an existing even for Fri/Sat.

I got an estimate of $5K two years ago + track gets revenue from food/drink etc.

That price is plus expenses I Believe. It cost 15000 to put on race at Windy Hollow with track getting 2500.00. Sponsors are critical!!

As far as the track, US60 is very similar in feel as windy hollow, but with that being said I'm sure beach bend is a great track. The only problem I see is with places like us60 it's a laid back environment. My daughter got to give rides in her race truck and it doesn't have the constraints of nhra. If they would be willing to back off with their bullshit it would be fine, but if they want all the chassis certs, license and Sfi stuff you could probably count out a bunch more. I'm sorry if that offends anybody, but considering I've came to every one they've had and typically bring three race cars, the problem is there's no way I could run my stuff under their rules. As far as giving notice, they were talking about doing it the same weekend next year.

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I agree with you Phillip, a lot of guys get shitty about the safety requirements... But never think why the requirements have been put in place.... It for personnel safety and the safety of those around you.

It's one thing to kill yourself..... But how'd you feel killing some little kid that's spectating, because you think the safety rules are to strict and shouldn't apply? And yes it has happened.

Well that is not a problem out here anyway. Tech out here is pretty strict.

I literally saw track officials flip out and ban a guy for life because he dipped into the 9s with no cage, no comp license, not even a roll bar or 5 point harness, no jacket even lol. All he had was a helmet and the factory seatbelt. Yeah that wasn't pretty.

I don't think anyone has to worry about "stepping on anyone's toes". The only way to get ideas out there is to discuss it, openly. I am glad this thread was even made.

Phillip, that's not what I mean I agree with the safety of others, but common sense goes a long ways. I think the need to look at the cars for real safety issues not whether my Sfi expired on my bell housing or my seat belts are four years old but been in a garage all their life. As far as safety with nhra, go to gateway on a wed night test and tune and I will guarantee you will see five or more oildowns out of the fancy high tech cars. I think there was two or three minor ones the whole weekend. And two of my three trucks had close to thirty passes each. I don't want to hurt anyone else but as far as me If I'm to scared to race maybe I ought to take up crocheting or something like that.   People need to face the facts, what we do is dangerous. I for one except that. It's like I said before, you will never please everyone so you have to just do your own thing. I'm glad these guys go through all the trouble to put this on. And I'm also glad there are all kinds of tracks weather it's nhra or outlaw. It's just sad to see all the ones we lost. Also I'm not trying to bag on some of the guys on the forum that couldn't make it, I was referring to the fact that when the regular program starts 20 or more fords show up to race. Just as it was at windy hollow. These people already race at this track, so they don't have the issues that we are discussing.

psfracer wrote:Well that is not a problem out here anyway.  Tech out here is pretty strict.  

I literally saw track officials flip out and ban a guy for life because he dipped into the 9s with no cage, no comp license, not even a roll bar or 5 point harness, no jacket even lol.   All he had was a helmet and the factory seatbelt.  Yeah that wasn't pretty.  

I don't think anyone has to worry about "stepping on anyone's toes".  The only way to get ideas out there is to discuss it, openly.  I am glad this thread was even made.  

However,
 THAT is part of the whole point of this type of race.
Guys with street cars, licensed and insured, and can not race them at bigger sanctioned tracks BECAUSE they don't have a full cage and are to fast but, the car is all steel with all the OEM and DOT safety items built in the car and then with the addition of a Nomex type suit, good belts and a certified helmet, (I have seen helmets which wouldn't pass at 1/4 mile NHRA events 15 years ago but, the car did have a backyard cage. When was the last year a SNELL 90 was allowed...?). THAT in itself is ridiculous.

I would really like to see a race car stand-up to the crash testing which the OEM manufactures put their cars through.  I question which would be safer.

That's not to say a fenders flapping rust bucket which is really fast should be allowed without a good cage but, sensibilities SHOULD prevail at these sort of outings.
An 1/8 mile is definitely long enough for this.

FIRE TRUCK...? Hell, they don't even have any water at US60 except at the starting line and the refreshment stand.

I'm not trying to be an ass, but consider this. What if nhra come in said you can't run any tire smaller than a 14x32 because it's to dangerous . I've been to a lot of heads up races and the one thing you could always count on is some true 10.5 or drag radial car would smack the wall. Or what about top fuel at over 300mph. Now in my opinion they are far more dangerous than a lot of cars that wouldn't be allowed at their track. But that sort of racing makes money so there won't be regulations like that. Just think about that. To a certain extent safety is a point of view. And before someone gets bent out of shape, I have nothing against small tire cars. I was just making the point that it's all about choices. Just because it's an outlaw track it doesn't mean it's any more dangerous. It's all about who looks at the cars. I'm not saying all, but most people do their best to make sure their car is safe. Just like my wooden race vehicles, the whole cab is a rollcage. The plywood is 1/2, far stronger than fiberglass. But because it's different some people wouldn't understand, and I'm sure it wouldn't certify. Does that make it less safe. No. My point is, who died and made nhra king. Without the racers they would be gone. Which if they keep on that might just happen. Just look at all the old pics from the races back in the 50s and 60s, the places were packed. Now look, empty pits and empty stands. That's what happens when you control and regulate to death. Sorry to get this far off subject. It's just that I really enjoy racing at the little mom and pop tracks. To me it's the real grassroots racing. I'm just a person that was born in the wrong era. I'll get off my soapbox now.

Wes Littrell wrote: I'm not trying to be an ass, but consider this. What if nhra come in said you can't run any tire smaller than a 14x32 because it's to dangerous . I've been to a lot of heads up races and the one thing you could always count on is some true 10.5 or drag radial car would smack the wall. Now in my opinion they are far more dangerous than a lot of cars that wouldn't be allowed at their track. But that sort of racing makes money so there won't be regulations like that. Just think about that. To a certain extent safety is a point of view.

Wes ... you're missing the point.  Even an idiot should have the point of view that a ball joint or tie rod end with a 1/4" of free-play is not safe to race.  But, some people, because it is their own vehicle will argue that nothing bad will happen. NOBODY has a crystal ball for that.
A lot of the items NHRA requires are about the money they get through certification or there has been a previous lawsuit which they lost because those rules were not in place. (Header collector "teathers" come immediately to mind).
They have to be "in place" for those reasons however, enforcement of  ALL those rules is not totally necessary at all times. Important ones should be.
SENSIBILITIES should determine what is really necessary at an event such as this.
Some things really matter and some not nearly as much or hardly at all. I have seen a 10 year old helmet split from just a little contact with a roll bar. If the belts are hard or frayed then they should not be allowed for vehicles with other than DOT tires, especially in cars running a certain higher speed.
Stuff such as that SHOULD be enforced; some other stuff can be ignored.

Randy Sorry I missed your post I was revising mine. I agree with you. That was pretty much my point. Common sense.