Re: AFR NEW HEADS

supervel45 May 5th 2015, 7:21 pm

72mav wrote:
supervel45 wrote:Maybe you could use the AFR intake with the SCJ head, but not much point to it when you can get a Mafia and not mess with it. One good thing about another BBF head is that it brings competition to the market, and may drive prices down, or at least help keep them stable?

Dont hold your breath on sales competion. F.Y.I. thats the reason Blue Thunders owner has slimed is production to nill becausd there is too much out there, beleive it or not.

I may be all wrong, but is there that much demand for Thor heads as for the smaller street type stuff? Also don't alot of classes specificly ban Thors, hurting their popularity? You may well be right about Blue Thunder, I was talking more about big companies like TFS, Edelbrock, and FRPP ect.

72mav May 5th 2015, 7:22 pm

SLord82 wrote:That really doesn't change anything I said.
If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility.

I really hope he can hire some help to get out from where he's stuck though.

X2

supervel45 May 5th 2015, 7:28 pm

SLord82 wrote:That really doesn't change anything I said.
If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility.

I really hope he can hire some help to get out from where he's stuck though.

I think most of the guys into Big Block Ford know about Blue Thunder. It's about like a BB Dodge guy not knowing about B1's

Doug Rahn May 5th 2015, 7:41 pm

AFR must be doing something right, they've been in business for 45 years and have done business with the likes of Bill Jenkins, Bob Glidden, Warren Johnson, and Frank Iaconio just to name a few . I first heard about them from a Hot Rod mag in the early seventies.

SLord82 May 5th 2015, 8:11 pm

supervel45 wrote:
SLord82 wrote:That really doesn't change anything I said.
If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility.

I really hope he can hire some help to get out from where he's stuck though.
I think most of the guys into Big Block Ford know about Blue Thunder. It's about like a BB Dodge guy not knowing about B1's

I think some do and some don't. I honestly forgot all about them until a few nights ago when I was doing random googling of Ford heads. And anything I found was several years old. My impression was they went out of business or stopped making BBF heads.

When was the last time someone posted asking about Blue Thunder CJs vs anything? Or someone said recommend me a head and the conclusion was BT or BT was even mentioned?

Lem Evans May 5th 2015, 8:51 pm

68galaxie wrote:
Lem Evans wrote:

If you or anyone else want to call the vehicle something else I'm fine with that but, don't say it's not a race car too.

I didn't say it wasn't a race car, I said it was a street car (that races too)
Why are we arguing over semantics?

It IS a very cool car, and I am sure has well over $100K invested, and yes it is a street car that races at the track too.

1] "We'" aint arguing....I'm just stating my case & I hope that's all you are doing.....but we disagree it seems.

2] The guy has a $500 [at best] Fairmont sedan and has $100,000 + in the deal....if I owned that unit I'd damn sure think I had a race car because it aint got any collector value.

3] It's never been made clear to me if the 'car' would NHRA certify to run 7.54 @ 191.....if it will not it's a coffin...not a street car. Even in a legal car a guy could get f'd up in a hurry at that level of performance.

rmcomprandy May 5th 2015, 10:12 pm

SLord82 wrote:
supervel45 wrote:
SLord82 wrote:That really doesn't change anything I said.
If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility.

I really hope he can hire some help to get out from where he's stuck though.
I think most of the guys into Big Block Ford know about Blue Thunder. It's about like a BB Dodge guy not knowing about B1's

I think some do and some don't. I honestly forgot all about them until a few nights ago when I was doing random googling of Ford heads. And anything I found was several years old. My impression was they went out of business or stopped making BBF heads.

When was the last time someone posted asking about Blue Thunder CJs vs anything? Or someone said recommend me a head and the conclusion was BT or BT was even mentioned?

I can see you haven't been here very long because it shows that you don't know your A$$ from a hole in the ground when it comes to the big block Ford parts and fail to recognize the fact that most other people on this forum, do.
You simply don't know what you don't know.
Art Francis does not care about you or hardly anybody else out in the marketplace, (other than his dealers), and as long as he satisfies HIMSELF, making some money along the way making good parts, he is very happy within his niche market. It makes no sense to have more market visibility than what you are able to produce.
AFR did EXACTLY that when they showed this new head and intake manifold of theirs publicly almost THREE years ago at the 2012 SEMA show and said vehemently it would be available in a few months ... that is what has people so upset with how THEY do business.

A lot of those "Blue Thunder" parts are only semi-finished and they won't even sell product to the public, only to those dealers who will stock the parts.

If you don't wish to use his stuff, then don't ... with his limited inventory and dealer network, somebody else will and he will keep going just fine without needing any further company growth.

Trying to compare apples with oranges just doesn't work.

gmsmkr May 5th 2015, 10:40 pm

AFR NEW HEADS - Page 6 Images%204_zpspqzpaejj

If it wasn't for ford the LS wouldn't do what it does distributor up front, split exhaust , look at the intake runners too....... just sayn I'm a gear head and like all things fast but personally I bleed blue or "gray" in my case I have always like ford gray more than the blue

supervel45 May 5th 2015, 10:48 pm

gmsmkr wrote:

If it wasn't for ford the LS wouldn't do what it does distributor up front, split exhaust , look at the intake runners too....... just sayn I'm a gear head and like all things fast but personally I bleed blue or "gray" in my case I have always like ford gray more than the blue

Did they steal the skirted cross bolted mains from the FE Fords also?

SLord82 May 5th 2015, 10:51 pm

rmcomprandy wrote:
SLord82 wrote:
supervel45 wrote:
SLord82 wrote:That really doesn't change anything I said.
If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility.

I really hope he can hire some help to get out from where he's stuck though.
I think most of the guys into Big Block Ford know about Blue Thunder. It's about like a BB Dodge guy not knowing about B1's

I think some do and some don't. I honestly forgot all about them until a few nights ago when I was doing random googling of Ford heads. And anything I found was several years old. My impression was they went out of business or stopped making BBF heads.

When was the last time someone posted asking about Blue Thunder CJs vs anything? Or someone said recommend me a head and the conclusion was BT or BT was even mentioned?

I can see you haven't been here very long because it shows that you don't know your A$$ from a hole in the ground when it comes to the big block Ford parts and fail to recognize the fact that most other people on this forum, do.
You simply don't know what you don't know.
Art Francis does not care about you or hardly anybody else out in the marketplace, (other than his dealers), and as long as he satisfies HIMSELF, making some money along the way making good parts, he is very happy within his niche market. It makes no sense to have more market visibility than what you are able to produce.
AFR did EXACTLY that when they showed this new head and intake manifold of theirs publicly almost THREE years ago at the 2012 SEMA show and said vehemently it would be available in a few months ... that is what has people so upset with how THEY do business.

A lot of those "Blue Thunder" parts are only semi-finished and they won't even sell product to the public, only to those dealers who will stock the parts.

If you don't wish to use his stuff, then don't ... with his limited inventory and dealer network, somebody else will and he will keep going just fine without needing any further company growth.

Trying to compare apples with oranges just doesn't work.

Wow. Just wow Randy. I knew you could be a hot head but seriously, grow up. You always take everything people say so personally.

I never said anything negative about BT products or about Art. I was merely sharing my perspective as the average consumer. And if Art feels the same way you do about us regular consumers and does not want our business it's not wonder he has almost zero perceivable market presence.

And for the record I have been here for a few years and on the other board since it was on network 54, but I'm not here to prove myself to you.

supervel45 May 5th 2015, 10:54 pm

http://www.network54.com/Forum/267359/message/1264554748/last-1264556216/Re-+Cylinder+Head+Info Old list, is there a sticked new list yet? Maybe when the new AFR's get out and get tested it can be updated?

rmcomprandy May 5th 2015, 11:18 pm

SLord82 wrote:

Wow. Just wow Randy. I knew you could be a hot head but seriously, grow up. You always take everything people say so personally.

I never said anything negative about BT products or about Art. I was merely sharing my perspective as the average consumer. And if Art feels the same way you do about us regular consumers and does not want our business it's not wonder he has almost zero perceivable market presence.

And for the record I have been here for a few years and on the other board since it was on network 54, but I'm not here to prove myself to you.

No hot head here ... I was only telling it as it seems, (not to be judgmental about any company, big or very small, or how they CHOOSE to market their parts), simply because you don't agree or can visualize what all the facts about them are.
This was very calm and calculated telling you exactly what you fail to recognize all by yourself ... making judgements about companies and their "mission statements" without knowing any of the information behind it is ludicrous. That is absolutely stupid.
If pointing that out makes you feel bad ... oh, well. The proof is in the obvious ignorance on these matters making no difference how long you have been here.

Know about what you speak, facts are facts, opinions matter little except to yourself. Apparently, you still don't understand.

SLord82 May 5th 2015, 11:38 pm

Again I was just sharing my perspective on BT from my POV. I never made statements, much less "judgements", about their "mission statement" or Art's intentions at all. So stop trying to put words in my mouth so you can try to prove me wrong about something I didn't say.

All I've said is that from what I've observed, here and elsewhere, BT has a small presence and almost zero visibilty in this already niche market.

As far as your response being a calm calculated one; I'm not sure when that included telling a person they don't know their ass from a hole in the ground... Cause that's not hot headed at all

schmitty May 6th 2015, 12:08 am

If you were to ask people who are serious about their pursuit of high end BBF engines, they should know who Blue Thunder is. Not too many people are able to afford $10k+ heads, but the ones who can, know.

rmcomprandy May 6th 2015, 12:10 am

"If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility".
Is this not being derogatory about the fact that Blue Thunder doesn't need or want any more market visibility...?
To the "wanna be" market, that is probably true but, to those who are really interested ... not true at all.

"finding an AFR product is as easy as falling off a stump" ... that was a comparison of market visibility which you didn't agree with no matter what that company's intent ... did I read that wrong?
The AFR big block Ford head was supposed to be released to the public in June of 2013 ... I, (and no one else), can find any in the marketplace yet ?????

"I know there are plenty of guys out there who want/wanted Thors but, can't easily get their hands on them" ... is certainly questioning the company and their decision not to become bigger.
It is impossible to sell heads to 50 people when your production is only 20 sets per year.

"My impression was they went out of business' ... is this not a lack of knowledge of actual facts...?

"When was the last time someone posted asking about Blue Thunder CJ's vs. anything"?
Is this not a derogatory statement about that company's mission statement to NOT become a larger company...?
They don't sell to the PUBLIC so, it requires an individual actually CALLING one or more of their dealers.

I am not putting any words in your mouth but, I am answering what you questioned ... you seem to have little clue about the actualities here.

Jeez ... I was facetiously smiling and even laughing a bit when I typed that "hole in the ground" thing; I guess "have little clue" might be more on point.

QtrWarrior May 6th 2015, 7:23 am

Gentlemen,

While a good debate is always welcome... This is getting a little off topic and out of hand.

As for the new AFR heads....
When someone other then AFR or a magazine lackey gets their hands on some
and does a non-bias comparison, THEN we will have something to compare...

Carl May 6th 2015, 10:16 am

68galaxie wrote:I wonder if the AFR intake could be used with a CJ intake port?
Square yes, but fit inside the CJ gasket I believe. Maybe a small bit of port matching?

The intake is on CJ centers, and the rectangle is a bit smaller than the CJ gasket, so no reason it couldn't be used on CJ/A429/SCJ/P51 heads with minimal port matching. It would certainly be a heck of a lot closer than the Victor is out of the box. Most aftermarket BBF intakes have a rectangular-ish shape until they get to the flange, so it's really just the head with the drastic change in port shape.

I talked to Tony when he was planning the dyno test, and he said he wanted to run P51 and TFS heads at the same time, and wanted to try all the heads with all the intakes. No idea if any of that happened or not, but I would be very interested in how much of the gains we saw were due to the intake manifold.

SLord82 May 6th 2015, 10:29 am

rmcomprandy wrote:
"If it's one guy or 5 or 50, the point is still the same; almost zero market visibility".
Is this not being derogatory about the fact that Blue Thunder doesn't need or want any more market visibility...?
To the "wanna be" market, that is probably true but, to those who are really interested ... not true at all.

No, that is not derogatory. Derogatory implies disrespect, and nothing I said was disrespectful of Art or his products. Matter of fact, I did say that he makes a nice high quality product.. If he doesn't want more visibility, thats fine. Thats his choice.

rmcomprandy wrote:
"finding an AFR product is as easy as falling off a stump" ... that was a comparison of market visibility which you didn't agree with no matter what that company's intent ... did I read that wrong?
The AFR big block Ford head was supposed to be released to the public in June of 2013 ... I, (and no one else), can find any in the marketplace yet ?????

Nope. Just another statement comparing their perceivable market visibility as a company as a whole.

rmcomprandy wrote:
"I know there are plenty of guys out there who want/wanted Thors but, can't easily get their hands on them" ... is certainly questioning the company and their decision not to become bigger.
It is impossible to sell heads to 50 people when your production is only 20 sets per year.

Its not questioning his stance. Its true that there are people that want his product. If he chooses not to produce more, thats his choice, but it doesn't change the fact that there were/are guys that want them and can't get them.

rmcomprandy wrote:
"My impression was they went out of business' ... is this not a lack of knowledge of actual facts...?

That was meant 'tongue in cheek' to illustrate my point about BT having little visibility.

rmcomprandy wrote:
"When was the last time someone posted asking about Blue Thunder CJ's vs. anything"?
Is this not a derogatory statement about that company's mission statement to NOT become a larger company...?
They don't sell to the PUBLIC so, it requires an individual actually CALLING one or more of their dealers.

Again no insult was made toward BT, so its not derogatory. Only supporting my point about their perceivable market. Wouldn't this be the one place that should have a lot of BT threads?

rmcomprandy wrote:
I am not putting any words in your mouth but, I am answering what you questioned ... you seem to have little clue about the actualities here.

Jeez ... I was facetiously smiling and even laughing a bit when I typed that "hole in the ground" thing; I guess "have little clue" might be more on point.

[/quote]

You did put words in my mouth when you said that I was "making judgements about companies and their "mission statements"". I never made any judgments nor did I ever mention their 'mission statement'. You even implied I said 'mission statement' by putting the term in quotes in your post.

Look, I won't continue to go in circles with you about this in this thread, we've done enough damage with this tangent.

I'll just agree to disagree Very Happy

Gary Blair May 6th 2015, 10:40 am

Lem Evans wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:Nothing wrong with solid FT cams. I like them a bunch. A good valve job and short turn work can be very rewarding on just about any head.

There is a nice pump gas 521 with early A-429's around hear with an Ultradyne SFT, 271/279 @ .050, 110, .642 gross. 10-1, Victor with a Holley 1250. 345 CFM @ .600 lift on the intake

696 HP @ 6000

688 ft lbs @ 4800

Sometimes simple can be a lot of fun.

The 707 hp engine's cam is but 256*/266*. The owner's request was for a street only engine that would not be operated above 6,000 rpm, hence the small cam.

Some thing like 265*/275* would certainly put a lot more meat on the table and make a nice street/strip combo.

Agreed, things don't have to be fancy to be fun.

This one started out as a street/strip engine. I had a UD like this one in a 466 30 years ago LOL and it was a bit rough on the street. With the 521 it calmed it down pretty well and much better than the 466.

It made best power with the 1150 but down the track it was better with a 1050 and street as well. It's all track now though. A Fox with a PG.

How are the street manners with the TFS-M intake manifold?

I like those old Fairlanes, 66 post being my favorite.

rmcomprandy May 6th 2015, 8:11 pm

SLord82 wrote:

You did put words in my mouth when you said that I was "making judgements about companies and their "mission statements"". I never made any judgments nor did I ever mention their 'mission statement'. You even implied I said 'mission statement' by putting the term in quotes in your post.

Look, I won't continue to go in circles with you about this in this thread, we've done enough damage with this tangent.

I'll just agree to disagree

Your questions in themselves certainly sound to be judgmental so, I'll just leave it at that and let everyone here make there own decisions about whether or not there was any undermining intent behind the pointed questions.

Gary Blair May 7th 2015, 8:17 am

Lem Evans wrote:
Gary Blair wrote:Nothing wrong with solid FT cams. I like them a bunch. A good valve job and short turn work can be very rewarding on just about any head.

There is a nice pump gas 521 with early A-429's around hear with an Ultradyne SFT, 271/279 @ .050, 110, .642 gross. 10-1, Victor with a Holley 1250. 345 CFM @ .600 lift on the intake

696 HP @ 6000

688 ft lbs @ 4800

Sometimes simple can be a lot of fun.

The 707 hp engine's cam is but 256*/266*. The owner's request was for a street only engine that would not be operated above 6,000 rpm, hence the small cam.

Some thing like 265*/275* would certainly put a lot more meat on the table and make a nice street/strip combo.

Agreed, things don't have to be fancy to be fun.

I agree on the cam. Something smaller would build more cylinder pressure and give you some in the middle.

Lem, what header was used for this engine on dyno? May be that Torino Hooker that AFR used put the SCJ at a disadvantage.

I have to agree that a ported SCJ and TFS intake could show a different result vs. the AFR head and manifold.

BB94STANG May 7th 2015, 3:32 pm

And we wonder why the posts on the forum are down.

supervel45 May 7th 2015, 3:48 pm

I doubt it.

D. Sea May 7th 2015, 4:26 pm

BB94STANG wrote:And we wonder why the posts on the forum are down.

AFR NEW HEADS - Page 6 How-to-choose-sunscreen

72mav May 7th 2015, 5:00 pm

BB94STANG wrote:And we wonder why the posts on the forum are down.

I think Facebook is the culprit, especially when it comes to general discussion subjects. Not so much tech, but that may change with time. JMHO.
Gotta check my facebook.
See yas!

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