AFR NEW HEADS

"How are the street manners with the TFS-M intake manifold?"

I have not observed anything that would indicate that there could, would or should be any drivablity issues with it. That's mostly about carb & cam.

The cam is small and the carb is not too big so, life will be good. The thing idled like pussy cat on the dyno.

The FX 4700 is a two circuit deal with a P.V. in the primary side....it's clean and mean at and off idle.

Gary Blair wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

Gary Blair wrote:Nothing wrong with solid FT cams. I like them a bunch. A good valve job and short turn work can be very rewarding on just about any head.

There is a nice pump gas 521 with early A-429's around hear with an Ultradyne SFT, 271/279 @ .050, 110, .642 gross. 10-1, Victor with a Holley 1250. 345 CFM @ .600 lift on the intake

696 HP @ 6000

688 ft lbs @ 4800

Sometimes simple can be a lot of fun.

The 707 hp engine's cam is but 256*/266*. The owner's request was for a street only engine that would not be operated above 6,000 rpm, hence the small cam.

Some thing like 265*/275* would certainly put a lot more meat on the table and make a nice street/strip combo.

Agreed, things don't have to be fancy to be fun.

I agree on the cam. Something smaller would build more cylinder pressure and give you some in the middle.

Lem, what header was used for this engine on dyno?  May be that Torino Hooker that AFR used put the SCJ at a disadvantage.

I have to agree that a ported SCJ and TFS intake could show a different result vs. the AFR head and manifold.

Gary, headers were what were available to use....no slide rule/magic deal....2" primary. 2" or 2.125" I do not think it'd matter a lot. Thanks to Dave for the loan of them.

FWIW,
Art Francis is a retired police officer ( well pensioned) who likes Fords. He doesn't HAVE to make parts. His large EGO and being a control freak pushes him to make ''the best" he can when he does make somerthing. From humble beginings ( making a few manifolds off of the old SHELBY patterns) he pushed out into other areas based on his interest. He has suffered the usual business pitfalls including employee ripoffs and (IMHO) as he continues to age re evaluates if it's all worth it or not. He's proven that he can make a premium part which satisfies the ego part. As already mentioned a "normal" company has many employees to spread the load and Art does not. It is afterall HIS business and he can run it ( right or wrong in our eyes) the way he wants to. I've known him for 30+ years and respect what he's done despite never using any of his products.

Lem Evans wrote:"How are the street manners with the TFS-M intake manifold?"

I have not observed anything that would indicate that there could, would or should be any drivablity issues with it. That's mostly about carb & cam.

The cam is small and the carb is not too big so, life will be good. The thing idled like pussy cat on the dyno.

The FX 4700 is a two circuit deal with a P.V. in the primary side....it's clean and mean at and off idle.

 

I know a guy that has one of those carbs on a Blue Thunder dual plane that is a streeter. It's a 70 1/2 Falcon, just ignert.

gt350hr wrote:      FWIW,
        Art Francis is a retired police officer ( well pensioned) who likes Fords. He doesn't HAVE to make parts. His large EGO and being a control freak pushes him to make ''the best" he can when he does make somerthing. From humble beginings ( making a few manifolds off of the old SHELBY patterns) he pushed out into other areas based on his interest. He has suffered the usual business pitfalls including employee ripoffs and (IMHO) as he continues to age re evaluates if it's all worth it or not. He's proven that he can make a premium part which satisfies the ego part. As already mentioned a "normal" company has many employees to spread the load and Art does not. It is afterall HIS business and he can run it ( right or wrong in our eyes) the way he wants to. I've known him for 30+ years and respect what he's done despite never using any of his products.

I met Art about 10 years ago at the PRI. He was there along with Cary Chounard from ET Performance. They were showing the Thor. Very dedicated man. The quality of his products is second to none.

Arts line of cylinder heads for the Cleveland and 460 are top notch. That 4.3 Cleveland is taller than most big block heads. The two piece intake manifolds are sweet.

It sure would be nice if somehow these lines could be manufactured in more volume through some sort of JV (Joint Venture). Then Art could concentrate on the FE line solely.

Art doesn't do thing half xxx ( way). LOL

gt350hr wrote:   Art doesn't do thing half xxx ( way). LOL

No he sure doesn't. The Ford racers need his stuff to take the battle to the Ragalay's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G6qfLJYjTQ

Blake for VP

IDT-572 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G6qfLJYjTQ

I'm missing something what does this POST /\ have to do with the new AFR head ?

BOSS 429 wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G6qfLJYjTQ

I'm missing something what does this POST /\ have to do with the new AFR head ?

We had a poster tooting the almighty LS engine, so I posted up that link, I guess I was kind of being a smart tail.  I probably shouldn't have done it.

IDT-572 wrote:I probably shouldn't have done it.

Yes you should have, this isn't yellow bullet!!!

68formalGT wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:I probably shouldn't have done it.

Yes you should have,  this isn't yellow bullet!!!

Thank God it's not YB.

gt350hr wrote:

68formalGT wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:I probably shouldn't have done it.

Yes you should have,  this isn't yellow bullet!!!

 Thank God it's not YB.

Lots of good info over there if you can weed through the bs and ls cult mentality.

68formalGT wrote:

gt350hr wrote:

68formalGT wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:I probably shouldn't have done it.

Yes you should have,  this isn't yellow bullet!!!

 Thank God it's not YB.

Lots of good info over there if you can weed through the bs and ls cult mentality.

"My brother's girlfriend's cousin has a friend who knows a guy who did this" and so, it must be true ... that's the kind of crap I remember from over there along with a bunch of opinions and most are inaccurate.

Haven't been there in a couple years and don't ever intend upon going to visit.

rmcomprandy wrote:

68formalGT wrote:

gt350hr wrote:

68formalGT wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:I probably shouldn't have done it.

Yes you should have,  this isn't yellow bullet!!!

 Thank God it's not YB.

Lots of good info over there if you can weed through the bs and ls cult mentality.

"My brother's girlfriend's cousin has a friend who knows a guy who did this" and so, it must be true ... that's the kind of crap I remember from over there along with a bunch of opinions and most are inaccurate.

Haven't been there in a couple years and don't ever intend upon going to visit.

Amen

Lem Evans wrote:Based on the magazine stuff I hope I have this info correct.

Question is...if you were sitting at a stop light in your 3,300# Fox Mustang and some gay LS Chevy guy was in the other lane and you had one block to get it done....3,200 stall converter...which engine would you use?

1] 727 Hp @ 6,400 rpm - 674 lbs. ft. @ 5,000 rpm

2] 652 Hp @ 6,500 rpm - 649 lbs. ft. @ 4,700 rpm

3] 707 Hp @ 6,000 rpm - 694 lbs. ft. @ 4,800 rpm

?

Engine #3 is quite an achiever, it is within 8 HP @ 6000 rpm of the SAMS 532 pump gas P-51 engine. The SAMS P-51 is 715 HP @ 6000 rpm. #3 is better on torque @ 4800 by 40 Ft. Lbs than the P-51. #3 has a 256 flat tappet and the P-51 has a 273/280 roller.

Gary Blair wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Based on the magazine stuff I hope I have this info correct.

Question is...if you were sitting at a stop light in your 3,300# Fox Mustang and some gay LS Chevy guy was in the other lane and you had one block to get it done....3,200 stall converter...which engine would you use?

1] 727 Hp @ 6,400 rpm - 674 lbs. ft. @ 5,000 rpm

2] 652 Hp @ 6,500 rpm - 649 lbs. ft. @ 4,700 rpm

3] 707 Hp @ 6,000 rpm - 694 lbs. ft. @ 4,800 rpm

?

Engine #3 is quite an achiever, it is within 8 HP @ 6000 rpm of the SAMS 532 pump gas P-51 engine. The SAMS P-51 is 715 HP @ 6000 rpm. #3 is better on torque @ 4800 by 40 Ft. Lbs than the P-51. #3 has a 256 flat tappet and the P-51 has a 273/280 roller.

Tom Petty had a song that ~ said....'even the losers get lucky sometimes'.

I'd say the cam the SAM guys had was a bit more than needed to do what this project wanted.

The SCJ FRPP head has a smaller intake valve & port than the P51 deal...that and the shape of the short side radius is very compatible with the typical SFT cam. lifts.

Lem Evans wrote:

Gary Blair wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Based on the magazine stuff I hope I have this info correct.

Question is...if you were sitting at a stop light in your 3,300# Fox Mustang and some gay LS Chevy guy was in the other lane and you had one block to get it done....3,200 stall converter...which engine would you use?

1] 727 Hp @ 6,400 rpm - 674 lbs. ft. @ 5,000 rpm

2] 652 Hp @ 6,500 rpm - 649 lbs. ft. @ 4,700 rpm

3] 707 Hp @ 6,000 rpm - 694 lbs. ft. @ 4,800 rpm

?

Engine #3 is quite an achiever, it is within 8 HP @ 6000 rpm of the SAMS 532 pump gas P-51 engine. The SAMS P-51 is 715 HP @ 6000 rpm. #3 is better on torque @ 4800 by 40 Ft. Lbs than the P-51. #3 has a 256 flat tappet and the P-51 has a 273/280 roller.

Tom Petty had a song that ~ said....'even the losers get lucky sometimes'.

I'd say the cam the SAM guys had was a bit more than needed to do what this project wanted.

The SCJ FRPP head has a smaller intake valve & port than the P51 deal...that and the shape of the short side radius is very compatible with the typical SFT cam. lifts.

Interesting thought on the Cam. SAMS did test a smaller cam, 260/268 108 .726. They only list peak numbers, 728 for power and 679 Tq.

Tom Petty wins again.

dirt_worker wrote:

Straubtech wrote:AFR thought this was a good idea.  I left a message at Mr. Oakley's shop.

Chris I too suggest blake cartwright get a chance to demo a set. there's not many guys on this site that are Well rounded enough to give real world unbiased info as Blake. I ran one of his cams before yours w EXCELLNT results. plus, Blakes not sponsored by TFS.

My vote is for Blake as well.
Good honest un-biased feedback.

Same

Gary Blair wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

Gary Blair wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Based on the magazine stuff I hope I have this info correct.

Question is...if you were sitting at a stop light in your 3,300# Fox Mustang and some gay LS Chevy guy was in the other lane and you had one block to get it done....3,200 stall converter...which engine would you use?

1] 727 Hp @ 6,400 rpm - 674 lbs. ft. @ 5,000 rpm

2] 652 Hp @ 6,500 rpm - 649 lbs. ft. @ 4,700 rpm

3] 707 Hp @ 6,000 rpm - 694 lbs. ft. @ 4,800 rpm

?

Engine #3 is quite an achiever, it is within 8 HP @ 6000 rpm of the SAMS 532 pump gas P-51 engine. The SAMS P-51 is 715 HP @ 6000 rpm. #3 is better on torque @ 4800 by 40 Ft. Lbs than the P-51. #3 has a 256 flat tappet and the P-51 has a 273/280 roller.

Tom Petty had a song that ~ said....'even the losers get lucky sometimes'.

I'd say the cam the SAM guys had was a bit more than needed to do what this project wanted.

The SCJ FRPP head has a smaller intake valve & port than the P51 deal...that and the shape of the short side radius is very compatible with the typical SFT cam. lifts.

Interesting thought on the Cam. SAMS did test a smaller cam, 260/268 108 .726. They only list peak numbers, 728 for power and 679 Tq.

Tom Petty wins again.

You'll have to forgive me, but I have little knowledge about what the SAMS were trying to get to. Was it about doing a real street engine or about trying to get a big number .

83-88T-Bird Guy wrote:

dirt_worker wrote:

Straubtech wrote:AFR thought this was a good idea.  I left a message at Mr. Oakley's shop.

Chris I too suggest blake cartwright get a chance to demo a set. there's not many guys on this site that are Well rounded enough to give real world unbiased info as Blake. I ran one of his cams before yours w EXCELLNT results. plus, Blakes not sponsored by TFS.

My vote is for Blake as well.
Good honest un-biased feedback.

Blake is a cool dude for sure & I've been trying to get Oakley to quit lying about the AFR flow numbers.....any of you guys that want to spank him for such come to the Ford race at US 60  .

Let's put the burden were it belongs....AFR sends the heads to Blake and flow them on Phillip's flow bench during the race weekend.

Lem Evans wrote:

83-88T-Bird Guy wrote:

dirt_worker wrote:

Straubtech wrote:AFR thought this was a good idea.  I left a message at Mr. Oakley's shop.

Chris I too suggest blake cartwright get a chance to demo a set. there's not many guys on this site that are Well rounded enough to give real world unbiased info as Blake. I ran one of his cams before yours w EXCELLNT results. plus, Blakes not sponsored by TFS.

My vote is for Blake as well.
Good honest un-biased feedback.

Blake is a cool dude for sure & I've been trying to get Oakley to quit lying about the AFR flow numbers.....any of you guys that want to spank him for such come to the Ford race at US 60  .

Let's put the burden were it belongs....AFR sends the heads to Blake and flow them on Phillip's flow bench during the race weekend.

X2

Lem Evans wrote:

83-88T-Bird Guy wrote:

dirt_worker wrote:

Straubtech wrote:AFR thought this was a good idea.  I left a message at Mr. Oakley's shop.

Chris I too suggest blake cartwright get a chance to demo a set. there's not many guys on this site that are Well rounded enough to give real world unbiased info as Blake. I ran one of his cams before yours w EXCELLNT results. plus, Blakes not sponsored by TFS.

My vote is for Blake as well.
Good honest un-biased feedback.

Blake is a cool dude for sure & I've been trying to get Oakley to quit lying about the AFR flow numbers.....any of you guys that want to spank him for such come to the Ford race at US 60  .

Let's put the burden were it belongs....AFR sends the heads to Blake and flow them on Phillip's flow bench during the race weekend.

My engine probably needs freshening, if they treat me right I might even do an A-B dyno test between my heads and their top head. I would have to cut the new reliefs in my pistons while they were out.

That would be a very good comparison. I think my engine would be able to take advantage of the flow they have. I don't think it would be an over headed engine and not totally test the capability's of their head.

An intake test could be done also, Mafia, my modded (Super Albert Victor), stock ported Victor, and AFR manifold.