Kasse oil pump problem

Anybody had a problem with installing a MSD distributor in a motor with a Kasse oil pump? Looking down into the motor, the oil pump shaft points toward the rear of the motor. It rotates fine w a 1/4 speed handle and thin socket but I am not able to pry the shaft forward enough get distributor to drop in. I have a distributor without the gear installed and it still wont go. Its a c9ve block w/ no damage.
Any ideas?

rowdy1 wrote:Anybody had a problem with installing a MSD distributor in a motor with a Kasse oil pump? Looking down into the motor, the oil pump shaft points toward the rear of the motor. It rotates fine w a 1/4 speed handle and thin socket but I am not able to pry the shaft forward enough get distributor to drop in. I have a distributor without the gear installed and it still wont go. Its a c9ve block w/ no damage.
Any ideas?

Are you sure you didn't lift the drive out of the pump with the speed handle when you lifted the handle off?

When installed the pump I used the circle clip on the upper end of the shaft to hold it down in the pump. I have done what you described in the past. The shaft is definitely in the pump, and I can barley get a 1/4 drive 1/4 inch deepwell socket on the shaft. It is offset toward the rear that much!

rowdy1 wrote:When installed the pump I used the circle clip on the upper end of the shaft to hold it down in the pump. I have done what you described in the past. The shaft is definitely in the pump, and I can barley get a 1/4 drive 1/4 inch deepwell socket on the shaft. It is offset toward the rear that much!

I might be missing something here but the circle clip is meant to stop the drive from falling into the pan if it comes out with distributor upon removal it does not hold it into the pump...I would lift it out and re-drop the drive into the pump to make sure it is seated properly because the issue is not getting the distributor on, it is making sure the drive is engaged in the oil pump and the distributor, or the engine will surely be toast on startup, or shortly after.

rowdy1 wrote:When installed the pump I used the circle clip on the upper end of the shaft to hold it down in the pump. I have done what you described in the past. The shaft is definitely in the pump, and I can barley get a 1/4 drive 1/4 inch deepwell socket on the shaft. It is offset toward the rear that much!

The pump drive is 5/16" hex. It comes-up through a .535"/.540" hole.

I don't think the oil pump is causing the problem.

All oil pump drives will sit off centre a little

Turn the shaft a little bit at a time and keep trying the distributor till is goes down. It sounds like it just needs to match up.

agree with the replies 2 things when putting on the oil pump shaft retaining clip or ring as I call it leave a litte bit of a air gap between it and the block, the shaft needs to be able to move up a little bit, if not I'm pretty sure that little ring will leave a surprise in your oil pan after it rubs against the block a few times, The pump when pre oiling will build pressure in the pump sometimes cocking the shaft and laying against the block after you are done, let it sit just a few minutes after pre oiling and see it the shaft becomes easy to move again,  I have before used a socket and ext to pre oil before but after a little thinking what holds the oil pump shaft in alignment when doing this NOTHING may not hurt anything but in my little pea of a brain probably not the best way to do this just take a old just take a old dist take the dist gear off take a shaft of some sort I think I used a old punch handle and put in the top of the dist were the rotor was use whatever you have on hand to help bond it permantly to the dist and now you have a tool to pre oil with that keeps the shaft aligned when you are pre oiling a motor and it was cheap, my way of thinking is shaft alignment must be important because most manufactures use this design, I know it used to cheaply drive the pump off the cam but alignment must be a concern, after all they are the engineers and I am not. I also as stated above hope you are using a 5/16 oil pump shaft.  just my 4 cents
Steve

FalconEh wrote:..I might be missing something here but the circle clip is meant to stop the drive from falling into the pan if it comes out with distributor upon removal it does not hold it into the pump..

No.  The clip goes on the underside of the distributor boss to keep the shaft in the pump (with running clearance).  It should not be allowed to come out at all.  The retaining clip should NOT be between the distributor gear & the boss in the block.

DFI429 wrote:

FalconEh wrote:..I might be missing something here but the circle clip is meant to stop the drive from falling into the pan if it comes out with distributor upon removal it does not hold it into the pump..

No.  The clip goes on the underside of the distributor boss to keep the shaft in the pump (with running clearance).  It should not be allowed to come out at all.  The retaining clip should NOT be between the distributor gear & the boss in the block.

This looks to be that it might be two ways of saying the same thing but, maybe not.
The clip IS positioned on the underside of the block boss and keeps the drive rod from pulling up & out of the pump then falling down further, when removing the distributor.

I've had a problem before when the distributor is very difficult to get to go down over the oil pump drive shaft and it was because the shaft was shaped very blunt on the end. A little work with the grinder to make the end more pointy helped a lot.

rmcomprandy wrote:

DFI429 wrote:

FalconEh wrote:..I might be missing something here but the circle clip is meant to stop the drive from falling into the pan if it comes out with distributor upon removal it does not hold it into the pump..

No.  The clip goes on the underside of the distributor boss to keep the shaft in the pump (with running clearance).  It should not be allowed to come out at all.  The retaining clip should NOT be between the distributor gear & the boss in the block.

This looks to be that it might be two ways of saying the same thing but, maybe not.
The clip IS positioned on the underside of the block boss and keeps the drive rod from pulling up & out of the pump then falling down further, when removing the distributor.

Correct Randy, I have had many stock applications that when the distributor was removed the clip had slid down and the drive had pulled out of the pump and wedged itself against the side, guessing the drive was sitting on top of the pump drive ledge. After lifting and reseating IN the pump and priming for verification the distributor(s) were reinstalled. Sometimes slightly wiggling the rotor helped also.

Thanks for the replies. The shaft is definetly in the pump, I can built oil pressure with a speed handle. The clip is in the correct place, under the boss in the block, there is an 1/8 inch of up and down play in the shaft. I know the oil pump in installed correctly. I have done this 100 times, but have never had a oil pump drive that I could not "jiggle" a little bit and get the dist. to drop in. I was hoping someone had seen this before. I guess the pan will come off tomorrow!

I have seen the hex in the distributor shaft distorted enough to not go over the shaft.
Does the distributor shaft go over a 5/16" hex wrench easily...?

Ill be able to answer that question tomorrow afternoon! ( after I've taken it apart) I think the problem is the angle of the shaft, its almost rubbing the back side of the hole in the block. I just hope its not the block!

I guess it would be easy enough when you have the pan off to put the distributor in the block, insert the drive shaft and then bolt down the pump that way you KNOW its hooked up and going to work.

And much safer than me trying to "tap" it in with a brass hammer!

I've often had to turn the crankshaft a bit while applying light down pressure on the distributor. That allows the tapered bottom of the dizzy shaft to "walk" a bit and align itself with the pimp shaft and hex drive. Just remember to put the ctank back at TDC after the distributor is seated.

maverick wrote:I've often had to turn the crankshaft a bit while applying light down pressure on the distributor. That allows the tapered  bottom of the dizzy shaft to "walk" a bit and align itself with the pimp shaft and hex drive.  Just remember to put the ctank back at TDC after the distributor is seated.  

X2.. Ive had to this many times. Had to turn some half way around ( 180* ) before it fell in place.

res0rli9 wrote:

maverick wrote:I've often had to turn the crankshaft a bit while applying light down pressure on the distributor. That allows the tapered  bottom of the dizzy shaft to "walk" a bit and align itself with the pimp shaft and hex drive.  Just remember to put the ctank back at TDC after the distributor is seated.  

X2..  Ive had to this many times. Had to turn some half way around ( 180* ) before it fell in place.

Or you could just turn the oil pump driveshaft about 1/4 turn at a time till the distributor falls in. Sometimes it can take a few tries.

cletus66 wrote:Or you could just turn the oil pump driveshaft about 1/4 turn at a time till the distributor falls in.  Sometimes it can take a few tries.

That's how I do it . Also make sure the Oil pump shaft has some endfloat . The ARP ones have been mentioned on here can be tight . One i used needed a little trim on one end .

Mine is an ARP as well!

rowdy1 wrote:Looking down into the motor, the oil pump shaft points toward the rear of the motor...I am not able to pry the shaft forward enough get distributor to drop in. I have a distributor without the gear installed and it still wont go. Its a c9ve block w/ no damage...I have done this 100 times, but have never had a oil pump drive that I could not "jiggle" a little bit and get the dist. to drop in. I was hoping someone had seen this before....

Mock it all up in another block. If the symptoms appear the same then it's probably the pump body machining.  Just return it for another one. Or, if you feel like getting investigative then compere the dimensions to an OEM pump, and if repairable (such as perhaps needing to fly cut the mounting flange a degree or whatever) then just fix it.

Could you possibly have the wrong pump from maybe a Cleveland?

I don't think so, I bought it directly from Kasse and the pick up fits perfect in the pan. Its dimensionally the same as a stock pump, only beefier.