460 Budget Build for Fuel Mileage

^ I ran both rod lengths and the 3.5" and 3.78" cranks.

390 Crank and short rod is out of the hole .026".

352 Crank and long rod is in the hole .064".

Both using a 10.17" DH and a 1.816" CH.

383  is not very cost affective, unless want to spend 290 on Cometic .080" head gasket, might as well go 4.050" 390.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cgt-c5833-080/make/ford

Looks like Decking the Block on the 352 would be in order with those pistons if you wanted to get the compression up.

FE's are Interesting.

Having two cubic inch's like the 429/460 with one rod length and two pistons to contend with sure makes life a little simpler

Well guys, I'm going to do the 352 for now. The one I have had been rebuilt back in the '80s and according to my friend who I bought it from, it has around 25,000 miles.
It's .030 over and unfortunately has a very slight ring ridge, so it has a little wear. It actually has forged pistons; that was a surprise.
It does have some rust areas in a few cylinders. Think maybe I'll run a hone through the bores and see how it looks.
Haven't pulled the crank yet but the rod journals look perfect.

I actually found the camshaft Randy recommended on ebay. It's a Sealed Power but the same specs as the Elgin. I bought it.

1EFF100 wrote:Well guys, I'm going to do the 352 for now. The one I have had been rebuilt back in the '80s and according to my friend who I bought it from, it has around 25,000 miles.
It's .030 over and unfortunately has a very slight ring ridge, so it has a little wear. It actually has forged pistons; that was a surprise.
It does have some rust areas in a few cylinders. Think maybe I'll run a hone through the bores and see how it looks.
Haven't pulled the crank yet but the rod journals look perfect.

I actually found the camshaft Randy recommended on ebay. It's a Sealed Power but the same specs as the Elgin. I bought it.

Nice.

That's a good plan to me.

If you want to re-ring it Summit has Hastings Rings much cheaper then FleeBay.

I would double check the ring thickness on the aftermarket forged pistons before I ordered and make sure you did not get a set with 1/16" HiPo rings somehow.

Summit has Hastings Plasma Molly's in .039"/.040, overbore for 48 bucks in stock. Maybe they can be filed to fit the .030" bore? Most file to fit are .005". It's real close.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hsn-2m139040/make/ford

Finding that cam now was good. Was it the Last One?

Just a random seller. Here's the description from the ad.

Original NOS new old stock Performance Camshaft for Ford FE blocks 352,390,428 etc made by Sealed Power. It is the quality Speed Pro "Power Pro Plus" part number CS 1011R hydraulic with a 284 duration and 490 valve lift. Known for good performance and power range plus good idle. Comes from an old time machine shop stock.  Excellent new cam,  well stored in orig box for many years. No damage or corrosion, clean with original factory coating.
Never installed. Outside of box only has dirt smudges.
No disappointments.

I saw it in "Completed Listings" Make Offer, on the Speed Pro Camshaft.

Good Score.

I just snagged a new set of 924-16 CompCams SFT Springs New in the box for 65 plus 10 shipping last night.

Gotta Love the Bay on These Parts Most of the Time

I Think you may surprised how Nice that 352 is going to run and the Fuel Economy Improvement it will Make.

Are the 5/64" Top and 3/32" Second Ring Still Used much in the FE Pistons?

supervel45 wrote:I saw it in "Completed Listings" Make Offer, on the Speed Pro Camshaft.

Good Score.

I just snagged a new set of 924-16 CompCams SFT Springs New in the box for 65 plus 10 shipping last night.

Gotta Love the Bay on These Parts Most of the Time

I Think you may surprised how Nice that 352 is going to run and the Fuel Economy Improvement it will Make.

Nice. Ebay does have some good deals occasionally.
Thanks man, I hope so.

supervel45 wrote:Are the 5/64" Top and 3/32" Second Ring Still Used much in the FE Pistons?

Yes, pretty much all the rebuilder shelf pistons use them.

Check your Forged Pistons and see.

Those Summit Rings I linked are 5/64" 5/64, just in case you missed it.

Hopefully your Pistons are also. Seems they are less expensive.

Check the lift, on the cam you take out. Just curious. Measure the Lobes with Calipers top and side, I am sure you knew that, just saying.

For all practical purposes the Speed Pro Cam You got is like the one I had in my 351 Truck with the bleed off Rhoads Lifters. If I remember correctly the advertised duration was 287, which I don't put much stock in anyway. It had 3.90's 32" Tires and a stock convertor with a Eddie 400 Performer and a 600 Holley at 8/1 Compression. Very good bottom end and Pulled to 5,500. Mileage was good too, for a very Heavy 1978 Longbed.
The 429 ran much better but, Still in the 8's low 8's at that, compression wise with a 221//108/.540" camshaft and a 750DP,really used up those dual tanks Much Faster. Higher Gears, 3.50, and 33" Tires Helped Some but, Double Digits were Egg Under the Gas Petal Driving.

I Think Those FE Small Port Heads will Help on Mileage over the 2V Cleveland's, Some Also.

Will the 428 Headers work with the 352?

What size tubes are they?

Some of those old FE HiPo Manifolds sure look nice. For a Daily Driver if they worked and did not cost like the 429CJ's and PI's, that's what I'd be after. Probably overkill on this deal though.

dfree383 wrote:You could apply the same stuff to the 428…..

Recam it, new intake and carb……plus a bunch of tuning

I’d be a lot cheaper and easier than a swap.

An FE will never get out of the single digits on mileage no matter what you do. They are inherently inefficient design. Thats one of the reasons the 429/460 was brought about in the first place.

stanger68 wrote:

dfree383 wrote:You could apply the same stuff to the 428…..

Recam it, new intake and carb……plus a bunch of tuning

I’d be a lot cheaper and easier than a swap.

An FE will never get out of the single digits on mileage no matter what you do. They are inherently inefficient design. Thats one of the reasons the 429/460 was brought about in the first place.

You need to go over to the FE forums and see what some of those guys are getting. I'm getting 10 with my hot rod 428.
Double digits are easily attainable.

supervel45 wrote:Will the 428 Headers work with the 352?

What size tubes are they?

Some of those old FE HiPo Manifolds sure look nice. For a Daily Driver if they worked and did not cost like the 429CJ's and PI's, that's what I'd be after. Probably overkill on this deal though.

No headers. I'm running stock log manifolds.
The outlets are 2 1/4" rather than the common car 2", so they flow slightly better. I'll be running these on the 352.

1EFF100 wrote:

stanger68 wrote:

dfree383 wrote:You could apply the same stuff to the 428…..

Recam it, new intake and carb……plus a bunch of tuning

I’d be a lot cheaper and easier than a swap.

An FE will never get out of the single digits on mileage no matter what you do. They are inherently inefficient design. Thats one of the reasons the 429/460 was brought about in the first place.

You need to go over to the FE forums and see what some of those guys are getting. I'm getting 10 with my hot rod 428.
Double digits are easily attainable.

Maybe so. But it will be low double digits. The canted valves, port design and chambers of a 460 will make your job much easier. I have had a 302 ‘76 model on its best day got about 20 with tailgate down, 390 ‘74 model it gets 10mpg detuned and leaned out for mileage. (Which by the way makes nowhere near the power it does if you tune it for towing). And 460 ‘75 model that i mentioned in my first post at 15mpg. In my humble opinion if you set up an FE to get mileage in the teens in a aerodynamically challenged brick of a pickup truck. Its going to be gutless. With that i bow out if this debate. If you prove me wrong i will be curious to know the specifics later. I will gladly eat that plate of crow and may do the same to my 74. Its next in line at my shop for a makeover anyway.

1EFF100 wrote:

supervel45 wrote:Will the 428 Headers work with the 352?

What size tubes are they?

Some of those old FE HiPo Manifolds sure look nice. For a Daily Driver if they worked and did not cost like the 429CJ's and PI's, that's what I'd be after. Probably overkill on this deal though.

No headers. I'm running stock log manifolds.
The outlets are 2 1/4" rather than the common car 2", so they flow slightly better. I'll be running these on the 352.

I think that will work good on this deal. Same would go for a 2" 0r 2 1/4" Dual Exhaust. My thought is the back pressure helps improve low end torque. Plus less leaks to deal with, like on the old school headers.

stanger68 wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:

stanger68 wrote:

dfree383 wrote:You could apply the same stuff to the 428…..

Recam it, new intake and carb……plus a bunch of tuning

I’d be a lot cheaper and easier than a swap.

An FE will never get out of the single digits on mileage no matter what you do. They are inherently inefficient design. Thats one of the reasons the 429/460 was brought about in the first place.

You need to go over to the FE forums and see what some of those guys are getting. I'm getting 10 with my hot rod 428.
Double digits are easily attainable.

Maybe so. But it will be low double digits. The canted valves, port design and chambers of a 460 will make your job much easier. I have had a 302 ‘76 model on its best day got about 20 with tailgate down, 390 ‘74 model it gets 10mpg detuned and leaned out for mileage. (Which by the way makes nowhere near the power it does if you tune it for towing). And 460 ‘75 model that i mentioned in my first post at 15mpg. In my humble opinion if you set up an FE to get mileage in the teens in a aerodynamically challenged brick of a pickup truck. Its going to be gutless. With that i bow out if this debate. If you prove me wrong i will be curious to know the specifics later. I will gladly eat that plate of crow and may do the same to my 74. Its next in line at my shop for a makeover anyway.

I'd wager with that 4Spd. manual, 28" Tire and 3.08 gears he will get an honest 12-14Mpg Highway. Maybe a tad more even. He can also do the 1-3 4 shift around town to Granny it.

I still say a Q-Jet or a 4100 AutoLite would be the Ticket for Low Tech MPG

stanger68 wrote:

dfree383 wrote:You could apply the same stuff to the 428…..

Recam it, new intake and carb……plus a bunch of tuning

I’d be a lot cheaper and easier than a swap.

An FE will never get out of the single digits on mileage no matter what you do. They are inherently inefficient design. Thats one of the reasons the 429/460 was brought about in the first place.

I beg to differ with that…….

dfree383 wrote:

stanger68 wrote:

dfree383 wrote:You could apply the same stuff to the 428…..

Recam it, new intake and carb……plus a bunch of tuning

I’d be a lot cheaper and easier than a swap.

An FE will never get out of the single digits on mileage no matter what you do. They are inherently inefficient design. Thats one of the reasons the 429/460 was brought about in the first place.

I beg to differ with that…….

Yeah I kind of thought that was a pretty bold statement to make too, my impression was that Ford moved away from the FE more for emissions reasons than efficiency, I would think cost had a factor too when you consider all of the machining and assembly steps.

1EFF100 wrote:Well guys, I'm going to do the 352 for now. The one I have had been rebuilt back in the '80s and according to my friend who I bought it from, it has around 25,000 miles.
It's .030 over and unfortunately has a very slight ring ridge, so it has a little wear. It actually has forged pistons; that was a surprise.
It does have some rust areas in a few cylinders. Think maybe I'll run a hone through the bores and see how it looks.
Haven't pulled the crank yet but the rod journals look perfect.

I actually found the camshaft Randy recommended on ebay. It's a Sealed Power but the same specs as the Elgin. I bought it.

Whoa there big fella, not so fast. lol.
Okay, you guys are going to think I have a screw loose but that's not the case. Really. lol.
After doing a little more thinking on the matter and looking at the parts I have to use for either the 352 or the 460, I'm thinking the 460 is going to be the wiser choice from a budget standpoint.
And what I'm about to tell you is probably going to be the clincher for the 460.

My dad and I were very close, and he had a '69 Thunderbird (that I suggested he buy) we were kind of working on together. I bought him a 1970 core 429 to build so he could continue to drive the Tbird while he built the 429.
We made a couple road trips in that car to Utah to see family. Well, in 1991, we made the last trip I would ever take with him as he passed away from a massive heart attack 5 months after that trip. He was just 57.
I eventually got rid of the car and a friend of mine ended up with it, as well as the original block from the car. I recently got that block back. I would like to use it to build this engine. As you can imagine, the sentimental value is there.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but I had to add the context.

As for the parts list, I already have heads and intake for the 460 that need nothing. I will have to purchase heads and intake for the 352.
I have a crank and rods with approximately 200 miles on them for the 460. The crank and rods would, at the very least, need to be checked out by the machine shop.
The blocks are a wash as both will need to be machined.
Pistons for the 460 are common and will have a better quench right off the shelf than the 352 pistons.
I have a manual transmission bell housing for the 460.
Have a set of 460 Police Interceptor exhaust manifolds to use.
I will have to purchase motor mounts, flywheel and a camshaft for the 460.
Just bought a cam for the 352, but oh well. I'll add it to the inventory of new cams I haven't used. lol.

So....that's where I stand on this right now.

And thank you guys for all the input and putting up with my indecisiveness. The guys over on the FE forum get to experience it as well. lol
You know, it wouldn't be so difficult to make a decision if all I had was FEs or 460s, or 302 stuff laying around, but I have all of them. At least I don't get bored.  

I think a 351W would be better

I fully get the sentimental part of it about your dad, though.

1EFF100 wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:Well guys, I'm going to do the 352 for now. The one I have had been rebuilt back in the '80s and according to my friend who I bought it from, it has around 25,000 miles.
It's .030 over and unfortunately has a very slight ring ridge, so it has a little wear. It actually has forged pistons; that was a surprise.
It does have some rust areas in a few cylinders. Think maybe I'll run a hone through the bores and see how it looks.
Haven't pulled the crank yet but the rod journals look perfect.

I actually found the camshaft Randy recommended on ebay. It's a Sealed Power but the same specs as the Elgin. I bought it.

Whoa there big fella, not so fast. lol.
Okay, you guys are going to think I have a screw loose but that's not the case. Really. lol.
After doing a little more thinking on the matter and looking at the parts I have to use for either the 352 or the 460, I'm thinking the 460 is going to be the wiser choice from a budget standpoint.
And what I'm about to tell you is probably going to be the clincher for the 460.

My dad and I were very close, and he had a '69 Thunderbird (that I suggested he buy) we were kind of working on together. I bought him a 1970 core 429 to build so he could continue to drive the Tbird while he built the 429.
We made a couple road trips in that car to Utah to see family. Well, in 1991, we made the last trip I would ever take with him as he passed away from a massive heart attack 5 months after that trip. He was just 57.
I eventually got rid of the car and a friend of mine ended up with it, as well as the original block from the car. I recently got that block back. I would like to use it to build this engine. As you can imagine, the sentimental value is there.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but I had to add the context.

As for the parts list, I already have heads and intake for the 460 that need nothing. I will have to purchase heads and intake for the 352.
I have a crank and rods with approximately 200 miles on them for the 460. The crank and rods would, at the very least, need to be checked out by the machine shop.
The blocks are a wash as both will need to be machined.
Pistons for the 460 are common and will have a better quench right off the shelf than the 352 pistons.
I have a manual transmission bell housing for the 460.
Have a set of 460 Police Interceptor exhaust manifolds to use.
I will have to purchase motor mounts, flywheel and a camshaft for the 460.
Just bought a cam for the 352, but oh well. I'll add it to the inventory of new cams I haven't used. lol.

So....that's where I stand on this right now.

And thank you guys for all the input and putting up with my indecisiveness. The guys over on the FE forum get to experience it as well. lol
You know, it wouldn't be so difficult to make a decision if all I had was FEs or 460s, or 302 stuff laying around, but I have all of them. At least I don't get bored.  

Makes sense to me to go with the 460 and sorry to hear your dad passed away at 57 years old!!

Mark Miller wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:Well guys, I'm going to do the 352 for now. The one I have had been rebuilt back in the '80s and according to my friend who I bought it from, it has around 25,000 miles.
It's .030 over and unfortunately has a very slight ring ridge, so it has a little wear. It actually has forged pistons; that was a surprise.
It does have some rust areas in a few cylinders. Think maybe I'll run a hone through the bores and see how it looks.
Haven't pulled the crank yet but the rod journals look perfect.

I actually found the camshaft Randy recommended on ebay. It's a Sealed Power but the same specs as the Elgin. I bought it.

Whoa there big fella, not so fast. lol.
Okay, you guys are going to think I have a screw loose but that's not the case. Really. lol.
After doing a little more thinking on the matter and looking at the parts I have to use for either the 352 or the 460, I'm thinking the 460 is going to be the wiser choice from a budget standpoint.
And what I'm about to tell you is probably going to be the clincher for the 460.

My dad and I were very close, and he had a '69 Thunderbird (that I suggested he buy) we were kind of working on together. I bought him a 1970 core 429 to build so he could continue to drive the Tbird while he built the 429.
We made a couple road trips in that car to Utah to see family. Well, in 1991, we made the last trip I would ever take with him as he passed away from a massive heart attack 5 months after that trip. He was just 57.
I eventually got rid of the car and a friend of mine ended up with it, as well as the original block from the car. I recently got that block back. I would like to use it to build this engine. As you can imagine, the sentimental value is there.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but I had to add the context.

As for the parts list, I already have heads and intake for the 460 that need nothing. I will have to purchase heads and intake for the 352.
I have a crank and rods with approximately 200 miles on them for the 460. The crank and rods would, at the very least, need to be checked out by the machine shop.
The blocks are a wash as both will need to be machined.
Pistons for the 460 are common and will have a better quench right off the shelf than the 352 pistons.
I have a manual transmission bell housing for the 460.
Have a set of 460 Police Interceptor exhaust manifolds to use.
I will have to purchase motor mounts, flywheel and a camshaft for the 460.
Just bought a cam for the 352, but oh well. I'll add it to the inventory of new cams I haven't used. lol.

So....that's where I stand on this right now.

And thank you guys for all the input and putting up with my indecisiveness. The guys over on the FE forum get to experience it as well. lol
You know, it wouldn't be so difficult to make a decision if all I had was FEs or 460s, or 302 stuff laying around, but I have all of them. At least I don't get bored.  

Makes sense to me to go with the 460 and sorry to hear your dad passed away at 57 years old!!

Thank you, Mark.

Did you scope this Crower out?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284118847501?epid=250959270&hash=item4226cd900d:g:S8IAAOSwb5Vf3Fw9&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwBLQGhsfdqEHmedHoaz2OvOpFtU6FBJ4%2FW%2B369VMMFViklFQbJvHJyKmGzrrc%2FmXuiUswpCRrP1X6hn16BeW2EBjO%2FaPYn7yXKLomN6890B95oHpzBdGjExwkTyipGVGYJkLdRd1M6jHvBzhN4nrX9OYkWU%2BLrchviqyGDdm8kiP2gPegowkyCkJ32Fb2xaDLVQtuTMyGkR4VjqCDnLkJYXRgVhBr1xfScT0Ldm0MI1nEqCvWDhorFCcfcy1xAYCUw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR_DIiuyhYw

High dollar put put cam, likely a fuel sipper though.

That CompCams 256H-11 with lifters (Sell the Lifters) looked like the best bang for the Buck and Compromise on Performance and Economy. I like the 514"/.514" Lift and the 200 Dollar part.

There is a 256H-10 for sale but, it has .487"/.493" lift.

1EFF100 wrote:

And thank you guys for all the input and putting up with my indecisiveness. The guys over on the FE forum get to experience it as well. lol
You know, it wouldn't be so difficult to make a decision if all I had was FEs or 460s, or 302 stuff laying around, but I have all of them. At least I don't get bored.  

If you're starting with a block and no internals then build it as a 429.

That cam I suggested is the one I used in 16 garbage truck, heavy truck 429 engines for a township.
Those things are HEAVY ... 8.8/1 compression engines which ran on REGULAR gas.

Makes little sense to build for "mileage" and then need to use Premium gasoline.

1EFF100 wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:Well guys, I'm going to do the 352 for now. The one I have had been rebuilt back in the '80s and according to my friend who I bought it from, it has around 25,000 miles.
It's .030 over and unfortunately has a very slight ring ridge, so it has a little wear. It actually has forged pistons; that was a surprise.
It does have some rust areas in a few cylinders. Think maybe I'll run a hone through the bores and see how it looks.
Haven't pulled the crank yet but the rod journals look perfect.

I actually found the camshaft Randy recommended on ebay. It's a Sealed Power but the same specs as the Elgin. I bought it.

Whoa there big fella, not so fast. lol.
Okay, you guys are going to think I have a screw loose but that's not the case. Really. lol.
After doing a little more thinking on the matter and looking at the parts I have to use for either the 352 or the 460, I'm thinking the 460 is going to be the wiser choice from a budget standpoint.
And what I'm about to tell you is probably going to be the clincher for the 460.

My dad and I were very close, and he had a '69 Thunderbird (that I suggested he buy) we were kind of working on together. I bought him a 1970 core 429 to build so he could continue to drive the Tbird while he built the 429.
We made a couple road trips in that car to Utah to see family. Well, in 1991, we made the last trip I would ever take with him as he passed away from a massive heart attack 5 months after that trip. He was just 57.
I eventually got rid of the car and a friend of mine ended up with it, as well as the original block from the car. I recently got that block back. I would like to use it to build this engine. As you can imagine, the sentimental value is there.
Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but I had to add the context.

As for the parts list, I already have heads and intake for the 460 that need nothing. I will have to purchase heads and intake for the 352.
I have a crank and rods with approximately 200 miles on them for the 460. The crank and rods would, at the very least, need to be checked out by the machine shop.
The blocks are a wash as both will need to be machined.
Pistons for the 460 are common and will have a better quench right off the shelf than the 352 pistons.
I have a manual transmission bell housing for the 460.
Have a set of 460 Police Interceptor exhaust manifolds to use.
I will have to purchase motor mounts, flywheel and a camshaft for the 460.
Just bought a cam for the 352, but oh well. I'll add it to the inventory of new cams I haven't used. lol.

So....that's where I stand on this right now.

And thank you guys for all the input and putting up with my indecisiveness. The guys over on the FE forum get to experience it as well. lol
You know, it wouldn't be so difficult to make a decision if all I had was FEs or 460s, or 302 stuff laying around, but I have all of them. At least I don't get bored.  

Is The "1970 Core 429" still together or have you been through it yet?

Your other lower compression heads with the 429's high compression pistons, if the bores are good for a re-ring would be my go to also for mileage.

rmcomprandy wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:

And thank you guys for all the input and putting up with my indecisiveness. The guys over on the FE forum get to experience it as well. lol
You know, it wouldn't be so difficult to make a decision if all I had was FEs or 460s, or 302 stuff laying around, but I have all of them. At least I don't get bored.  

If you're starting with a block and no internals then build it as a 429.

That cam I suggested is the one I used in 16 garbage truck, heavy truck 429 engines for a township.
Those things are HEAVY ... 8.8/1 compression engines which ran on REGULAR gas.

Makes little sense to build for "mileage" and then need to use Premium gasoline.

My truck gets enough better fuel economy with premium to typically off set the cost difference of the cheaper fuel, just a thought. Granted if a 2018 5.0 but…… the same tuning principals should apply