460 build overview and progress

Well it seems ive settled on what im doing with my 429, now its time to get to doing it. Heres what ive got so far: 850 quik fuel carb, edlebrock performer RPM airgap intake, D0VE heads, comp cams 235/242 dur @ .050 .650/.657 lift 110 lsa mech. roller cam, 1.70 roller rockers, .030 over bottom with forged flat top pistons and dual idler gear drive for timing, mallory ignition and cdi box. Im not sure what kind of power this thing will make but im hoping to keep it running on 91 octane. Any tips or part suggestions would be great keeping in mind that this is supposed to be a street/strip motor in a 72 Gran torino with c6 and 3.50 gears.

This is just a personal preference, but I'd skip the gear drive and just use a good roller chain. Some gear drives are okeedokee, but I have a Pete Jackson (dog bone) geardrive that's only been installed once but never run. As I was adjusting the valves on the engine stand, the engine would occasionally "lock up" when I turned the engine by hand. It felt like I had forgotten to remove thhe piston stop. After several attempts to get a full revolution, I took off the gear drive and slipped on a chain. The engine turned like a dream. Put the gear drive back on, same trouble again. I put that booger back in the box and set it on a shelf. No telling what kind of grief I'd have bought if it did that while running.

I know some of the guys here have had good results with their gear drives. Just be sure to find out which ones are worth the money.....I only know that I won't bother with another Jackson.

I agree, IMHO dog bones are junk. I'd also off the 1.7 rockers(chebby) for a good set of FORD 1.73's.

Flat tops and DOVE heads will not like 91 octane much.

You're looking at around 11 to 1 compression (figuring zero-deck, -3 cc on flat-top, and 75cc heads).

IMHO, run it with that compression. You'll have to mix avgas or race gas, but it won't take alot. It makes a huge difference
running some good compression.

If you have your heart set on a gear drive, get the Milodon. It is a good unit.

Hope that helps,

Dave

Will having the piston crowns ceramic coated and hand polishing the chambers reduce the potential of detonation enough that i could reliably run the motor on 91 octane? Also how low can i realistically get the coolant temperature when its up to opperation temps?

torkair wrote:Will having the piston crowns ceramic coated and hand polishing the chambers reduce the potential of detonation enough that i could reliably run the motor on 91 octane? Also how low can i realistically get the coolant temperature when its up to opperation temps?

If you you're wanting it to run on 91, just polish the piston tops and chambers and lower the compression to 10 to 1. Set-up a cold-air induction system, so the engine is not ingesting hot under the hood air. Set your total timing to 32 degrees. This is for a realistic street engine operating over a wide range of conditions. While some claim to run higher compression ratios on the street, you find they have low gearing, high stall converters, big cams, and etc. in order for them to run those high compression ratios. All that is doing to to lower the load on the engine, which in turn, allows it to run without detonation under "light load conditions" on the street. Then the owner though take their cars to the drag strip, and bolt on slicks, you'll notice they run 100-octane because now the engine is getting stressed, and it will detonate on the lower octane gas. In my opinion, a true test of octane requirements of an engine is to to start a steep grade in high gear around 60 mph and punch it and take the car to around 130 mph. You find out very quickly how much octane you need. If you're not getting no pinging or detonation with that test, you're not going to get it under any other driving condition.

As far as temperature. Get a 180 degree thermostat, factory HD clutch fan, factory shroud, and a custom 4-core copper/brass radiator. Once the engine hits 180, it will stay there no matter what conditions exist. Those cars came with 460s, so finding the fan and shroud shouldn't be too hard.

Hope that helps,

Dave

I'm progressing fairly slowly with my build. Thus far I've got myself a set of d0ve=c builder heads and a victor intake setup for a dominator carb, also picked up a set of c9ve "foodball" rods with the intake (the rods were free so I cant really complain much). After a lot of reading Ive decided to go with the 460 instead of the 429 and run a t56 tranny instead of a c6 due to the super low overdrive 6th gear and because I like rowing a stick shift. Now that I have my major top end parts its time to find myself a block, crank, and other major bottom end parts, the guy I got the victor intake told me that if I had trouble finding a good block to give him a call, he had 5 or 6 just laying in the corner of his shop so I might take him up on the offer unless someone wants to take an 85 F250 4x4 stick shift truck off my hands once I pull the motor.

I'm getting ready to build a very similar build. Main difference is the cam. It will be a slow build so won't have any results until late spring early summer. Will be very interesting to watch your build.
GL.
Mike

torkair wrote:Will having the piston crowns ceramic coated and hand polishing the chambers reduce the potential of detonation enough that i could reliably run the motor on 91 octane? Also how low can i realistically get the coolant temperature when its up to opperation temps?

I did a 466 with D0OE-R's and a much milder camshaft than yours several years ago. The combustion chambers received a good cleaning (smoothing any and all edges), the pistons were removed of any sharp edges too. At 10.66:1 compression, standard shift, 4.30:1 and a little tinkering with the distributor's advance system the engine ran great and give excellent service using 91 octane gasoline.

I think the automatic transmission will help keep detonation away considering the 3.5:1 ring & pinion. With a standard transmission, I would be a bit concerned when you let the clutch out, moving that heavy car with the 3.5:1 ring & pinion if the engine didn't "rattle" a bit!

Another note if I may? That camshaft and 3.5:1 ring & pinion along with the weight of your car would sure enjoy a 460 (3.85") crankshaft, considering you haven't purchased pistons!

Happy motoring and a Merry Christmas.

Dave.

Already working on bringing it up to a 460, just feeling out my sources for donor parts (current issue is finding a 460 crank for a decent price but that should clear up shortly).

Wow, I haven't poked at this in a while, lol. I picked up a tired short block for $37.50 a couple months back and got my hands on a timing cover.

Here's my parts hoard thus far:

Edlebrock Victor intake with dominator pad
d0ve-C builder heads
460 short block + timing cover
spare c9 rods

I should have a few parts I can pull off my 400 once the 460 is actually looking like it's gonna come together like the ignition system and the roller rockers. Other than that I'm just frustrated with the job situation out here in Tucson.

Originally I started with a 429, but soon I realized there weren't many piston options for a 429. Let alone low compression pistons. High compression was okay back in the day because the leaded gas wouldn't detonate like the unleaded gas does today. Make sure to keep it below 10:1 compression, look into the high 8's to mid 9's with compression. I originally hated the idea of a comp. lower than 10.5:1 but I have to run it lower in order to save my engine and let it run good.

Another reason I switched to the 460 is this, I could use my stock rods and strengthen them. Plus the added stroke acts like a stroker, stroker motors are known for putting out big torque numbers. Its an easy power gain and will SAVE you money with the piston selection.

I have heard bad things about mallory, but have never used them. MSD their boxes will take a crap like 2 years down the road. It happened to me and some other people said they are known to do that. So I got a summit racing street and strip ignition. Its a little cheaper, it looks sharp and it has good features. The msd setup is analog, the summit setup is digital which makes it a more consistant flow. There are some other benifits also with the electrical output.

As for rockers I went with Harland Sharp. They are supposed to be good, everything is made, machined and has come from American soil. Its 100% American. That's why I went with them. I have not fired up my engine YET but I thought these things through before I bought the products that would go into the build. JMHO.

Aside from the piddly list of parts that I have up to this point, the reason I decided to go with the 460 is because building a 429 felt a lot like building a 351m, just no point behind it when there is something bigger and better...

I really haven't updated this post in a long time so here is the plan thus far: 12:1 cr to take advantage of the abundance of E85 in my area, M-800 5 speed stick shift because it should be light and compact and will fit where a toploader would go, custom grind cam as there is no reason to use an off the shelf cam when a custom grind costs a couple bucks extra. Personally I've never heard anything bad about mallory stuff but am always hearing about MSD stuff taking a dump on people. Harland sharp 1.73 rockers due to the fact that they're an all american company and I despise bowtie junk getting anywhere near my motor (unless it's in the lane next to me so I can show 'em who the big dog is, lol). The d0ve heads I have are "fresh from the junk yard" so to speak, my brother does some really good porting work and is the only person I trust in Tucson to do any work on my heads and intake, I also have the liberty of being able to kick his shins if he is taking his dear sweet time reworking the heads.

Sounds like a good build so far. But like I said about the mallory stuff, I have never used them so I don't have experience with that. The motor should make some good power how your planning on doing it. It doesn't take much to make a mean 460 so what your doing will be real nasty. I want to see a burnout video with you ripping through the gears on that trans. Its cool to see a manual trans burount because between each gear the tires stop so they can shift. It shows off how much power you have.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0OPXPzc9U8

i use mallory 7 on everything i have good unit no problems 7 years now all nos combos with high compression

torkair wrote:Aside from the piddly list of parts that I have up to this point, the reason I decided to go with the 460 is because building a 429 felt a lot like building a 351m, just no point behind it when there is something bigger and better...

I really haven't updated this post in a long time so here is the plan thus far: 12:1 cr to take advantage of the abundance of E85 in my area, M-800 5 speed stick shift because it should be light and compact and will fit where a toploader would go, custom grind cam as there is no reason to use an off the shelf cam when a custom grind costs a couple bucks extra. Personally I've never heard anything bad about mallory stuff but am always hearing about MSD stuff taking a dump on people. Harland sharp 1.73 rockers due to the fact that they're an all american company and I despise bowtie junk getting anywhere near my motor (unless it's in the lane next to me so I can show 'em who the big dog is, lol). The d0ve heads I have are "fresh from the junk yard" so to speak, my brother does some really good porting work and is the only person I trust in Tucson to do any work on my heads and intake, I also have the liberty of being able to kick his shins if he is taking his dear sweet time reworking the heads.

I started my 466 build with a 11.5 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression in mind and intended on running e85. Had most of the stuff bought and then started thinking of the disadvantages of running e85 and...the price isn't THAT MUCH CHEAPER. . About 25% LESS mileage than gas...a 466 in a '64 Galaxie. I was lucky to get 10 mpg with the tired 429 that was in it. I plan to do some cruisin' other that between gas stations and can't afford to run race gas. I decided to take steps to lower the compression down to 11 to 1 and a few other 'tricks' and chance it on 93 octane. What a job...but with a lot of help from a few guys on this forum and the 'other' one I think it'll be OK.
I don't know what you intend to do with your car BUT you might want to re-consider e85 and build it with less compression so you can run pump gas and get a few miles per gallon. Don't be like me and buy a bunch of parts and have them balanced and such and then have to change directions.
This is just 'food for thought.

I have been running E-85 for two years now, in a drag car no street at all. I like it, 110 octane runs cooler and not that much more fuel usage than race gas. 466 11:1 with Dove's & 950 carb It picked up .2 in 1/8mile when I switched to it.

BIGDOG466 wrote:I have been running E-85 for two years now, in a drag car no street at all. I like it, 110 octane runs cooler and not that much more fuel usage than race gas. 466 11:1 with Dove's & 950 carb It picked up .2 in 1/8mile when I switched to it.

BIGDOG,
WOW, .2 in the 1/8.
What kind of fuel were you running in it before you picked up the .2?
What else have you done besides the carb? Mines balanced, w/forged pistons, plazma moly rings.
Thanks.

About the same stuff roller cam .680 lift , victor was running turbo blue 110 gas.