Re: Connecting rod failure

bbf-falcon October 25th 2012, 11:32 pm

Dave De wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:
Dave De wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:

The Pan is the same one I have. You have other problems than the Pan. The Kaase pump and the Eagle H beams are not the culprit either. You are barking up the wrong tree imo.

Are you using a tray and the screen that is in the pan?

Yes

Who's tray are you using and what stroke are you running?
Does the crank set level with the ground or is there an angle to help oil drain back?[/quote]

Crank sets level. Built my own Tray from Canton universal kit.

k.pascoe October 26th 2012, 10:00 am

Dave De wrote:Interesting comments on the pan capacity. I always had 8 to 10 quarts of oil in it and it didnt matter much. At the time of failure it had 9.5 quarts in it. The remote fitting on the block has straight pipe thread projections on it and they are fairly wide open with hose adapters at a 45 degree angle.
Accu-sump will not hurt but seriously it is not going to solve this. Lets face it that Moroso pan is not going to work period and if there is anyone that has it and its working please speak up.
I hear there is a good Canton pan and that Lem has pans that people have had this issue solved or reduced. Another poor selection is the Kaase oil pump with its standard volume makes it good for a dyno queen. We need higher volume with our loose clearances. I just cant see how a standard volume pump is the right choice. i think if I build another its going to have Pauls HV pump in it.

I thought someone would say "I had that problem and this __?__ pan solved the issue. Or even a tray that helped. I see other cars at the track without Accu-Sumps going low 9's and have had converstions about oiling. They seem oblivious to a probem there.

Also Eagle H beams at 800 hp has anyone lost one like mine? I beams? I probably need a better rod than Eagle...any recommendations?

Thanks for the sympathy and I'm sorry to be blunt but I'm still pissed.

Dave

I know there is a argument H and I beams, do me a favor. Look at the beams on a locomtive driving the wheels, look at the beams in a building. Aluminum rods are I beam. I've bent a Crower I-beam so bad it looked like a pretzel. Why do you think diesel engines all run I-beams. So I would say dump the H-beams!

richter69 October 26th 2012, 10:58 am

H beam is not the problem!!!!

Lots of us running them in a lot higher hp combos with no pretzels and zero issues...............

dfree383 October 26th 2012, 11:50 am

Cylinder wall failed?

quick 52 October 26th 2012, 11:55 am

dave is there any way of using a smaller filter like a 3614 cross over to wix on the engine i used the small filter till i was able to rework my setup worked find

k.pascoe October 26th 2012, 12:05 pm

richter69 wrote:H beam is not the problem!!!!

Lots of us running them in a lot higher hp combos with no pretzels and zero issues...............

Really!!! The man broke a rod three inches down from the small end.......That's right H-beams don't bend, they break! He seems to have a oiling problem sure, but to break a rod and mash up a good head is not cool.
Again if he is serious, dump the H-Beams.

dfree383 October 26th 2012, 12:12 pm

k.pascoe wrote:
richter69 wrote:H beam is not the problem!!!!

Lots of us running them in a lot higher hp combos with no pretzels and zero issues...............

Really!!! The man broke a rod three inches down from the small end.......That's right H-beams don't bend, they break! He seems to have a oiling problem sure, but to break a rod and mash up a good head is not cool.
Again if he is serious, dump the H-Beams.

They are not the issue.....

richter69 October 26th 2012, 12:32 pm

k.pascoe wrote:
richter69 wrote:H beam is not the problem!!!!

Lots of us running them in a lot higher hp combos with no pretzels and zero issues...............

Really!!! The man broke a rod three inches down from the small end.......That's right H-beams don't bend, they break! He seems to have a oiling problem sure, but to break a rod and mash up a good head is not cool.
Again if he is serious, dump the H-Beams.

I run 5.teens in the 1/8th w a 3050 pd turd, almost 1000'hp w 200 worth of nos on top at 7600 rpm, Larry Ts deal is 3450 pds and been in the 4s........ both of us run cheaps ass Scat H beam rods.

my guess is if he puts a billet Oliver I beam deal in it and nothing else the result will be the same.

there are multiple issues but the rod design aint one of them...........

Lem Evans October 26th 2012, 1:46 pm

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22846&hilit=hbeam+rods

More disagreement

Dave De October 26th 2012, 6:37 pm

bbf-falcon wrote:
Dave De wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:
Dave De wrote:
bbf-falcon wrote:

The Pan is the same one I have. You have other problems than the Pan. The Kaase pump and the Eagle H beams are not the culprit either. You are barking up the wrong tree imo.

Are you using a tray and the screen that is in the pan?

Yes

Who's tray are you using and what stroke are you running?
Does the crank set level with the ground or is there an angle to help oil drain back?

Crank sets level. Built my own Tray from Canton universal kit.[/quote]

Rick,
That's good to know if I get back at this I'll look at the Canton Kit to make a tray. Are you running a 4.5 stoke?
Dave

Dave De October 26th 2012, 6:49 pm

Lem Evans wrote:http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22846&hilit=hbeam+rods

More disagreement

Now that's a good post and it leaves you wondering what you just read.

As far as H or I beams they both have merit. Twenty years from now it will still be controverse.

The general concensus with my explosion is that the rod failed from being siezed at the bearing then it broke about 2.5 inches from the pin. So like many others have said H beam or I beam, Chinese or American it was going to break.
No it didnt poke thru the cylinder but the deep skirting is gone from the block and sleeves will not restore the depth and the 3/32 liner would be somewhat out in open. So I'm scrapping the block.

Dave De October 26th 2012, 7:12 pm

If I were to build another 385 motor again for this car it would have a 4.3 stroke, 6.7 rods, an HV oil pump, a windage tray with a better pan, and a larger remote filter assembly parts with larger hoses. I do like E85 and will stay with it.
Maybe a short block assembly will become available that fits my needs as I'm not sure that I'll do this peice by piece again. I'll be watching and at the same time looking at blown 5.4 mod motors to push my junk down the track.
Thanks to all that contibuted here.

Dave

richter69 October 26th 2012, 8:44 pm

for the right price Id sell my shortblock.......... Shocked

bbf-falcon October 26th 2012, 10:52 pm

Dave De wrote:If I were to build another 385 motor again for this car it would have a 4.3 stroke, 6.7 rods, an HV oil pump, a windage tray with a better pan, and a larger remote filter assembly parts with larger hoses. I do like E85 and will stay with it.
Maybe a short block assembly will become available that fits my needs as I'm not sure that I'll do this peice by piece again. I'll be watching and at the same time looking at blown 5.4 mod motors to push my junk down the track.
Thanks to all that contibuted here.

Dave

I just scrapped (2) Mark 8 Lincons W/running DOHC 5.4's.

dfree383 October 27th 2012, 12:30 am

bbf-falcon wrote:
Dave De wrote:If I were to build another 385 motor again for this car it would have a 4.3 stroke, 6.7 rods, an HV oil pump, a windage tray with a better pan, and a larger remote filter assembly parts with larger hoses. I do like E85 and will stay with it.
Maybe a short block assembly will become available that fits my needs as I'm not sure that I'll do this peice by piece again. I'll be watching and at the same time looking at blown 5.4 mod motors to push my junk down the track.
Thanks to all that contibuted here.

Dave

I just scrapped (2) Mark 8 Lincons W/running DOHC 5.4's.

hell man before you junk the stuff let us know, I'll do better than scrap price for the motors !!!

bbf-falcon October 27th 2012, 1:53 am

I had both cars FS for a couple months Dave. Nobody seemed interested. Both complete cars for $1500 . I scrapped them both for $1430 and kept the fans and Alloy wheels.

dfree383 October 27th 2012, 2:11 am

most guys don't want complete cars.......next time part them out and then scrap them.

Motor and Trans for $600......???

quick 52 October 27th 2012, 10:12 am

Dave a eliminator block for sale on racejunk

Dave De October 27th 2012, 10:27 am

quick 52 wrote:Dave a eliminator block for sale on racejunk

The lightened one for $6500? If that's the one its not for me. Please keep looking I am as well.
Thx,
Dave

quick 52 October 27th 2012, 1:54 pm

Yeomans has a a460 block for $2250 thats a good block to start with

dfree383 October 27th 2012, 8:06 pm

Call Lem if you want a new a460 block.

69F100 October 27th 2012, 10:45 pm

Dave if you looking for a block this guy has a dove a block 4 bolt main I bought my stroker kit from him he tried to sale it me but i didnt plus it would have cost me to much to have it shipped to me. He is in Township Twp MI here is his number 586-321-0740 his name is Rick Nolff tell him Jim that bought thestroke kit told you about it

richter69 October 27th 2012, 11:51 pm

dfree383 wrote:Call Lem if you want a new a460 block.

x2

Mark Miller October 28th 2012, 12:16 am

bbf-falcon wrote:
Dave De wrote:If I were to build another 385 motor again for this car it would have a 4.3 stroke, 6.7 rods, an HV oil pump, a windage tray with a better pan, and a larger remote filter assembly parts with larger hoses. I do like E85 and will stay with it.
Maybe a short block assembly will become available that fits my needs as I'm not sure that I'll do this peice by piece again. I'll be watching and at the same time looking at blown 5.4 mod motors to push my junk down the track.
Thanks to all that contibuted here.

Dave

I just scrapped (2) Mark 8 Lincons W/running DOHC 5.4's.

Rick,

Those would be 4.6 DOHC's not 5.4's.They for sure would be worth some money.

Later Mark.

466cj October 28th 2012, 12:59 am

Dave De wrote:Just put it back together and went back to the track after a short break-in.

Ran three 1/8th miles and on the third 1/4 at the end of the track right at the trap #2 rod broke about 2 inches from the wrist pin.
Ive been having trouble keeping oil pressure at shutdown and last Sunday was no different. The bearings show lack of oil again and I think the rod failure was not related.
The only thing thats left useable is the the heads complete with 14 bent valves, 6 rods and pistons and the usual non moving items.
Dave

I'd say the oil issues and the rod breaking are separate issues. Did you just lift off the gas pedal? Hardest thing on a rod is a closed throttle at 6k - 7k RPM. My though is you just may have gotten a bad rod.

Your oiling issue, well something as others have said is not right. Making a right turn crusing down the street should not result in the oil pressure taking a dive. I'd inspect the oil pickup and pump real close for cracks.

The other thing that stands out to me is how did you end up with 14 bent valves? Did the timing chain or cam pin break? Was the piston to valve clearance checked?

Steve

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