Re: Fe vs 385 ?

bbf-falcon May 19th 2013, 11:25 pm

Maybe a FE won't make the final #'s that 385 series will,BUT I still love them because they were my first engine love. They were built in a different time w/a different purpose. My good friends B/W 58 Ford has a 512 Alum. block FE that made 826 hp 8yrs ago w/1 1050 Dommy.The head choice is one of the big anchors for the fe imo. They will never be the power maker of the 385,but sure not any reason to Bash them.
Coug, shame on you. And I really mean that,

DeepRoots May 20th 2013, 12:19 am

yeah, kinda immature to knock an engine series just because it is older and less developed.
Ford never really treated the FE like it should have in cars/trucks. If 10 times as many 427's were produced, the FE would have had a much different legacy.

If you want a 500hp engine for your early 60's vehicle, an FE looks and sounds exactly as it should, and would be the obvious choice. if 600+ hp is your goal, a 385 is a no brainer.
I wish I could afford to build a 650hp aluminum FE for my 63.5 Galaxie, but well... I could send one of my kids to college for a year for what that'd cost, so I have a 429. They are both awesome, and both have their own merits.

rmcomprandy May 20th 2013, 12:30 am

I didn't think that RESPECT was the issue here ... power potential difference with SIMILAR modifications for his street type vehicle was.

AGAIN; with only that in mind ... NO CONTEST.

the Coug May 20th 2013, 6:41 am

ok I admit I may have had a bad choice of wording, I have had many many Fe engines, after you figure out how to stop the oil leaks The run ok. the only one I never had was a 427 High Riser or a Tunnel Port. but those were like Gold even back then. If you insist on Building an FE engine get ready to sell your First born and some other stuff to make 600 hp... JMHO I still have a couple sets of 61 Starliner heads with the big ports but someday someone will be looking for them....

cletus66 May 20th 2013, 8:15 am

I grew up with FE's. My first car was a 390/4 speed Galaxie that I still have. I was talking to my machinist in the late 80's about building another 390, and he asked if I had ever thought about messing with a 460. I put a 460 and a C6 into my Galaxie and there was no comparison. The 460 had dished forged pistons, stock D3 heads, a .580ish cam, Hooker headers, and a stock iron intake. The car went 13.90's at 4000 lbs on street tires and ran on 87 octane. The same motor later went into a Mustang, and then into a pickup truck which I used to tow my Mustang to the first bash almost 20 years after I screwed it together. I did put a "truck" cam in it, but that is the only change I made. I still have a 390/5 speed in another Galaxie that I really enjoy cruising around, but it would NEVER hang with a similarly built 460. Is that a close enough comparison? Razz

dfree383 May 20th 2013, 12:41 pm

DeepRoots wrote:Yeah, dont' accept a challenge to race a hot FE

Honestly the 445 stroker kit made an easy 500hp FE possible. Up to that point I'd say the engine choice is a wash... want to hit over 600 + hp? the 385 is cheaper/easier simply due to being able to use a factory/junkyard block.

Over 600 is like falling off a log for a 385 based engine, for an FE its a whole lot harder and a bunch more expensive.

dfree383 May 20th 2013, 12:42 pm

466cj wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

Guess you don't understand how Blair Patrick made 900+ HP with an FE?

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1074.0

Ask him how much it costs to build one. and before you say I'm trashing FE I own several of them and I know Blair and think very highly of him. but as far a HP for dollar spent you aren't touching a 385 with any realistic FE.

dfree383 May 20th 2013, 12:47 pm

466cj wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:You can make the same power that the FE did in that link with a stock stroke stock iron head 460.

I love the FE engines, but I know the hp per $ and total hp goes to the 460 group.

I don't think anybody can argue the point, But I don't like to hear anybody bad mouth them either, they carried the ford racing banner proudly for years. And did a great job too..........

Not debating the 385 series is the better platform and can be done for less $$$. Do take issue with saying cannot be done as it can and has or that the cost would be unrealistic. The typical guy will spend many times upwards of $10k on a 900 hp 385 series engine. Will say regarding your stock block stock iron head making 900 hp you will need Iron CJ heads and more cam to make an honest 900 hp. Not quite any old JY 460 going to make 900 hp.

That Blair Patrick engine did the number with ported Eddie heads and TR. It really is not a very radical engine. Really the extra cost is in the need for an aftermarket block, crank, and whatever he charges for the porting. I have to wonder what he charges for it.

I agree the FE deserves respect. Much of Fords total performance was achieved this the FE, even winning Le Mans. It also has a heck of a following and aftermarket for an out dated dinosaur.

I decided on a 385 because cost of a good 427 block kills the deal on a 600 - 700 HP deal which can be done with a stock 460 block and crank. If was not for that I'd do a 454 FE as it fits better, lighter, and more vintage parts available for it. If Ford used 427's in everything instead of 390's be a heck of a closer horse race

I made 680 with left over junk with the motor that in my mustang right now and the training wheels motor that in the dragster made 800hp for way less than $10K.

466cj May 20th 2013, 8:39 pm

dfree383 wrote:
466cj wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

Guess you don't understand how Blair Patrick made 900+ HP with an FE?

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=1074.0

Ask him how much it costs to build one. and before you say I'm trashing FE I own several of them and I know Blair and think very highly of him. but as far a HP for dollar spent you aren't touching a 385 with any realistic FE.

Don't need to ask how much it cost to build as can see what parts went into it. What don't know and did say I wanted to know is the cost of porting the heads and intake.

I'm no fool David, I know what stuff cost and what can and cannot be done. I also know what guys spend on stuff and what they get for their dollars. Most guys spend upwards of $8k - $10k on a 900 hp 385 engine. How much did Bruno spend on his Eddie headed engine? I think I stated that, may be it was not clear, I think when I said the 385 had the advantage it should have been clear.

Realistic depends on who you talk to. I saw plenty of big name race engines 10 years ago come in for freshening that guys spent $20k that we could have done for a lot less. A 460 has a 70 cube advantage over a 390 and better heads so at the bottom end advantage 385. At the point you are buying aftermarket blocks, crankshafts, heads, etc... the gap is not as wide is my point especially for the guys who pays someone to built it for them.

As I said if Ford put a 427 (or a 454 stroker) in everything that had a 390 it would have been a lot closer, but that did not happen.

Hope this clears things up for you.

Steve

466cj May 20th 2013, 8:48 pm

dfree383 wrote:
I made 680 with left over junk with the motor that in my mustang right now and the training wheels motor that in the dragster made 800hp for way less than $10K.

800 hp is not 900 hp and 900 hp is not 1,000 hp. Also one guy will use a two bolt main stock block at 900 hp and say don't need anything more, where another will say need an aftermarket block. Application and expected life matter. To prove a point of pure HP production 385 wins. All I am saying is reality for most guys is a bit different and then if you factor in things other than just HP per dollar the FE has a lot of value in some situations like shoe horning into an early Mustang or Cougar or vintage parts availability.

BTW how did that 4 x 1 tunnel ram top work out for you?

Steve

bb429power May 20th 2013, 10:21 pm

Being that you have a truck and I actually lived the scenario, I'll chime in.
My truck 67 f100, 460, worked over iron heads, mild cam, dual plane with cheap holley 750 vac secondaries, tight street converter, 9:1 compression, spins to 6k.

My buddy...68 f100, 427, same wheelbase and trans, bigger converter, nice quickfuel 780 carb, worked over iron heads (no valve job though), dual plane, bigger cam than mine, 12:1 compression, Spins to 7k same gearing as me.

I ran over a second faster than him on a base tune, with major axle wrap, crappy 1-2 shift and letting off affraid

He rode in it and agrees mine pulls waay harder than his. And that is because, I have a 460, a truck engine. It has a longer stroke, so I had more torque than him by a lot, his 427 is meant to rev high and make horsepower. Mine is meant to do work, which is great for my heavy azz truck.

Not saying the 427 should determine how all FE's are, as there is the 390 truck engine as well. I've tuned one of those and a 360 as well. Someone correct me if I have overstepped or misspoken, I'd rather learn than go on with the incorrect logic. Very Happy

Just my .02, other guys here have actually built both engines, I have not. Only built a 460, and tuned FE's.

dfree383 May 21st 2013, 12:57 am

466cj wrote:
dfree383 wrote:
I made 680 with left over junk with the motor that in my mustang right now and the training wheels motor that in the dragster made 800hp for way less than $10K.

800 hp is not 900 hp and 900 hp is not 1,000 hp. Also one guy will use a two bolt main stock block at 900 hp and say don't need anything more, where another will say need an aftermarket block. Application and expected life matter. To prove a point of pure HP production 385 wins. All I am saying is reality for most guys is a bit different and then if you factor in things other than just HP per dollar the FE has a lot of value in some situations like shoe horning into an early Mustang or Cougar or vintage parts availability.

BTW how did that 4 x 1 tunnel ram top work out for you?

Steve

What's the cost of an aftermarket FE Block and how big will they go? 520+/? A 10.3 deck 460 will go well over 600" as you're well aware, so the gap does not narrow at all in that department. How about heads any thing for a FE pushing 600cfm that's not a one of a kind? or even exists? I've seen some cammer stuff push low to mid 400's with a lot of love and their was someone building high port FE heads that would go over 400 but man they where expensive and only a few set build from my understanding. I'm thinking the ports on those where some yates copies.

I agree the FE's are way cool and very nostalgic, I love them myself. and it does seem everyone can agree the 460 based stuff is the bang for the buck and on the high end will take the win too.

The rules ended up changing on the contest so the single 4 top is on the shelf to collect dust......

XF-66 May 21st 2013, 1:35 am

I've run the FE and had fun back in the day. Let me tell you! It was all uphill playing with the Chevy and Mopars for a number of reasons.
It just felt so good when you walked them, by just being better and smarter.

Today I'm building my first 385. What a motor! I'm still getting used to the differences, but I'm liking what I am seeing. Most important is the parts that are offered now and costs of the 385. Way cool. I now have folding money left over in my pockets!!!!

My old FE in my 66'.

Fe vs 385 ? - Page 2 Z28Killer

cletus66 May 21st 2013, 8:57 am

XF-66 wrote:I've run the FE and had fun back in the day. Let me tell you! It was all uphill playing with the Chevy and Mopars for a number of reasons.
It just felt so good when you walked them, by just being better and smarter.

Today I'm building my first 385. What a motor! I'm still getting used to the differences, but I'm liking what I am seeing. Most important is the parts that are offered now and costs of the 385. Way cool. I now have folding money left over in my pockets!!!!

My old FE in my 66'.

Nice Galaxie. I see you ran over a Camaro or two. Laughing

Beast May 22nd 2013, 10:16 am

rmcomprandy wrote:I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF6yJscOp58

Beast May 22nd 2013, 10:26 am

I tell you what, if I could get my 390 FE to make anywhere near the same Hp as my 547" 385, I know what'd be under my hood. FE's just sound so much better than any V8 I've ever heard.

bbf-falcon May 22nd 2013, 2:29 pm

imo,a FE short block w/the same ci as a 385 short block and same c/r etc. would be right w/the 385. It whats on top that puts the 385 far ahead.(Heads and Flow capability). My friends 512 FE made 826 @7k. Thats in line w/385 w/same head flow.

IDT-572 May 22nd 2013, 2:55 pm

Engines don't know what they are............. It's all about the suck , bang, and blow. If it's all what it needs to be it will make power. Of coarse it has to hold together also.

whitefield May 22nd 2013, 3:51 pm

IDT-572 wrote:Engines don't know what they are............. It's all about the suck , bang, and blow. If it's all what it needs to be it will make power. Of coarse it has to hold together also.

Don't forget the Squeeze ! Laughing

cletus66 May 22nd 2013, 4:08 pm

Beast wrote:
rmcomprandy wrote:I have seen a lot of engines of all kinfds and I have yet to see ANY Ford FE engine making anywhere near 1,000 horsepower NA no matter how much money gets spent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OF6yJscOp58

Sounds kinda stout !! Twisted Evil

cletus66 May 22nd 2013, 4:17 pm

Beast wrote:I tell you what, if I could get my 390 FE to make anywhere near the same Hp as my 547" 385, I know what'd be under my hood. FE's just sound so much better than any V8 I've ever heard.

At the track, they do sound distinctively different. There is a group of guys around here that have a bunch of nostalgia type FE cars, and they are music to the ears.

Bob Glidden had an awesome sound too.

But to the original poster, comparing a 390 and a 429 you drug out of the recycler and do a mild rebuild, the 429 comes out on top for power.

IDT-572 May 22nd 2013, 4:48 pm

cletus66 wrote:
Beast wrote:I tell you what, if I could get my 390 FE to make anywhere near the same Hp as my 547" 385, I know what'd be under my hood. FE's just sound so much better than any V8 I've ever heard.

At the track, they do sound distinctively different. There is a group of guys around here that have a bunch of nostalgia type FE cars, and they are music to the ears.

Bob Glidden had an awesome sound too.

But to the original poster, comparing a 390 and a 429 you drug out of the recycler and do a mild rebuild, the 429 comes out on top for power.

Out of all the crap on this thread, here is your simple answer.................. Thanks Cletus

cletus66 May 22nd 2013, 10:45 pm

IDT-572 wrote:
cletus66 wrote:
Beast wrote:I tell you what, if I could get my 390 FE to make anywhere near the same Hp as my 547" 385, I know what'd be under my hood. FE's just sound so much better than any V8 I've ever heard.

At the track, they do sound distinctively different. There is a group of guys around here that have a bunch of nostalgia type FE cars, and they are music to the ears.

Bob Glidden had an awesome sound too.

But to the original poster, comparing a 390 and a 429 you drug out of the recycler and do a mild rebuild, the 429 comes out on top for power.

Out of all the crap on this thread, here is your simple answer.................. Thanks Cletus

You're welcome. Cool

Fe vs 385 ? - Page 2 81MustangRacecar066

IDT-572 May 22nd 2013, 11:16 pm

cletus66 wrote:
IDT-572 wrote:
cletus66 wrote:
Beast wrote:I tell you what, if I could get my 390 FE to make anywhere near the same Hp as my 547" 385, I know what'd be under my hood. FE's just sound so much better than any V8 I've ever heard.

At the track, they do sound distinctively different. There is a group of guys around here that have a bunch of nostalgia type FE cars, and they are music to the ears.

Bob Glidden had an awesome sound too.

But to the original poster, comparing a 390 and a 429 you drug out of the recycler and do a mild rebuild, the 429 comes out on top for power.

Out of all the crap on this thread, here is your simple answer.................. Thanks Cletus

You're welcome.

And you did it with out any drama.................

cletus66 May 23rd 2013, 9:36 am

I need to step up my game. Laughing

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