AFR headed builds

octanehuffer wrote:Haha. Sheesh. Enough ego in here to change the subject matter from component selection to giving symantic opinions about what to call the guy who finish machines and fits and engine together? Sounds like you guys have your thumbs under your suspender straps well enough for me to just piss off I guess. I guess I should have hired a guy to chisel ingots of steel to hand fabricate every part of the engine. Would he then be properly called a machinist? But he couldn't then assemble it right? Cause then he'd just be called an engine assembler. And heaven forbid I give a guy premade items to assemble and machine the engine what needs machining. Any more more hoidy toidy terms you guys can think up for a person who does the same thing? We get it. The guy I'm giving my unfinished block to and premade items to is going to finish machining them to fit properly together, then assemble it. Don't really care if you guys fluff your feathers over terms to prove you are better than most. Got it. My engine machinist, engine assembler, engine blueprinter, engine builder, engine part machinist, whatever else you want to call him is the guy doing the work. I got a couple of pm's from members regarding these types here. Ask some questions and get ridiculed over an off topic and trivial subject.

Scott Foxwell wrote:

octanehuffer wrote:Haha. Sheesh. Enough ego in here to change the subject matter from component selection to giving symantic opinions about what to call the guy who finish machines and fits and engine together? Sounds like you guys have your thumbs under your suspender straps well enough for me to just piss off I guess. I guess I should have hired a guy to chisel ingots of steel to hand fabricate every part of the engine. Would he then be properly called a machinist? But he couldn't then assemble it right? Cause then he'd just be called an engine assembler. And heaven forbid I give a guy premade items to assemble and machine the engine what needs machining. Any more more hoidy toidy terms you guys can think up for a person who does the same thing? We get it. The guy I'm giving my unfinished block to and premade items to is going to finish machining them to fit properly together, then assemble it. Don't really care if you guys fluff your feathers over terms to prove you are better than most. Got it. My engine machinist, engine assembler, engine blueprinter, engine builder, engine part machinist, whatever else you want to call him is the guy doing the work. I got a couple of pm's from members regarding these types here. Ask some questions and get ridiculed over an off topic and trivial subject.

I think part of the problem here is you made this sound like something that's WAY over your head as far as what parts you need vs. the power you're trying to make. You were all over the map here. Saying "this isn't the first engine I've ever built" was a little laughable given some of the comments you were making.
Have you ever built a 2K hp turbo engine? Has your engine builder?
If you want to assemble this engine in your garage, even if he's done the basic machine work to put the long block together, do you have a mill and lathe? You're going to need one. You're going to run into all sorts of things that are going to need special attention to detail in order to live at 2K hp.
Will you use the factory motor mounts or a motor plate of some sort? If you think you're just going to bolt on a set of motor mounts and call it good, you're fooling yourself.
When you start trying to bolt all this stuff together and realize about half of it fits like it's supposed to, then what?
I do this for a living and I can tell you that getting the basic long block together, having the right parts, making sure the clearances are right to live at the power you want to make, detailing the parts so they will live and make reliable power, getting things like valve piston clearance right, ring gaps, rocker geometry, push rod lengths, cam installed right...that's the easy part. The other thing to think about is maybe the reason your "engine builder" isn't so thrilled about doing this for you is because you're basically taking money out of his pocket by buying all your parts somewhere else. A BIG part of the way an engine builder makes a living is SELLING PARTS and you're taking that part of his profit away from him. He's right...it's not very exciting to just do the labor part of these builds and honestly, he should charge you extra to have to inspect YOUR parts to make sure they're what they're supposed to be. You don't know. You're just buying them from XYZ parts company and you really have no idea what you're getting or what to look for. Your engine builder has spent a big part of his career (hopefully) going through many different suppliers over the years and building reputations with them. He knows where he likes to get his parts from so he can be confident that he's getting what he's paying for and getting the best deal he can.
Bottom line here is you seem to be taking a lot of things for granted, mostly out of inexperience, that others are trying in their best way to help you understand. If you brought me a bunch of parts that you bought and wanted me to build you a 2K hp turbo engine, I'd probably say no unless just by chance, they were all the same parts I would choose to build the engine and that's not likely. I tell my customers, this may be your engine, but it has MY name on it. That's not ego talking, that's reputation and that's what we, as engine builders, live on and survive on. You don't just build (even a decent engine) and down the road just throw a turbo on it and make the kind of power you're talking about making. Maybe you have no concept of that kind of power, I don't know, but you either build an engine from the get go that will make 2K hp, 1500lbs/ft or what have you, or you don't.

octanehuffer wrote:

Scott Foxwell wrote:

octanehuffer wrote:Haha. Sheesh. Enough ego in here to change the subject matter from component selection to giving symantic opinions about what to call the guy who finish machines and fits and engine together? Sounds like you guys have your thumbs under your suspender straps well enough for me to just piss off I guess. I guess I should have hired a guy to chisel ingots of steel to hand fabricate every part of the engine. Would he then be properly called a machinist? But he couldn't then assemble it right? Cause then he'd just be called an engine assembler. And heaven forbid I give a guy premade items to assemble and machine the engine what needs machining. Any more more hoidy toidy terms you guys can think up for a person who does the same thing? We get it. The guy I'm giving my unfinished block to and premade items to is going to finish machining them to fit properly together, then assemble it. Don't really care if you guys fluff your feathers over terms to prove you are better than most. Got it. My engine machinist, engine assembler, engine blueprinter, engine builder, engine part machinist, whatever else you want to call him is the guy doing the work. I got a couple of pm's from members regarding these types here. Ask some questions and get ridiculed over an off topic and trivial subject.

I think part of the problem here is you made this sound like something that's WAY over your head as far as what parts you need vs. the power you're trying to make. You were all over the map here. Saying "this isn't the first engine I've ever built" was a little laughable given some of the comments you were making.
Have you ever built a 2K hp turbo engine? Has your engine builder?
If you want to assemble this engine in your garage, even if he's done the basic machine work to put the long block together, do you have a mill and lathe? You're going to need one. You're going to run into all sorts of things that are going to need special attention to detail in order to live at 2K hp.
Will you use the factory motor mounts or a motor plate of some sort? If you think you're just going to bolt on a set of motor mounts and call it good, you're fooling yourself.
When you start trying to bolt all this stuff together and realize about half of it fits like it's supposed to, then what?
I do this for a living and I can tell you that getting the basic long block together, having the right parts, making sure the clearances are right to live at the power you want to make, detailing the parts so they will live and make reliable power, getting things like valve piston clearance right, ring gaps, rocker geometry, push rod lengths, cam installed right...that's the easy part. The other thing to think about is maybe the reason your "engine builder" isn't so thrilled about doing this for you is because you're basically taking money out of his pocket by buying all your parts somewhere else. A BIG part of the way an engine builder makes a living is SELLING PARTS and you're taking that part of his profit away from him. He's right...it's not very exciting to just do the labor part of these builds and honestly, he should charge you extra to have to inspect YOUR parts to make sure they're what they're supposed to be. You don't know. You're just buying them from XYZ parts company and you really have no idea what you're getting or what to look for. Your engine builder has spent a big part of his career (hopefully) going through many different suppliers over the years and building reputations with them. He knows where he likes to get his parts from so he can be confident that he's getting what he's paying for and getting the best deal he can.
Bottom line here is you seem to be taking a lot of things for granted, mostly out of inexperience, that others are trying in their best way to help you understand. If you brought me a bunch of parts that you bought and wanted me to build you a 2K hp turbo engine, I'd probably say no unless just by chance, they were all the same parts I would choose to build the engine and that's not likely. I tell my customers, this may be your engine, but it has MY name on it. That's not ego talking, that's reputation and that's what we, as engine builders, live on and survive on. You don't just build (even a decent engine) and down the road just throw a turbo on it and make the kind of power you're talking about making. Maybe you have no concept of that kind of power, I don't know, but you either build an engine from the get go that will make 2K hp, 1500lbs/ft or what have you, or you don't.

Yes. This is my first engine of this caliber. Not for my builder. Who said anything about me assembling it? I've said several times now that I'm brining him my parts that HE HAS NO PROBLEM USING. I agree that they try to use their own parts. I build over 250 transmissions on an annual basis and sell parts as a means to keep labor costs down. If dude wants to bring me a bunch if parts that require extra labor, I'll charge extra labor. If I have to make honey out of horseshit, I'll charge extra. If dude wants me to use his parts, its extra labor to justify no parts sold. If MY builder charges me more for it, I don't give a single shit.  I really don't understand why this is of ANY concern in helping me choose my parts. I AM BUYING THE PARTS NEEDED TO HAVE A GUY BUILD MY ENGINE! I AM SIMPLY TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT COMPONENTS ARE REQUIRED. I DONT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOOD COMBOS IN A BBF. MY BUILDER RECOMMENDED SEVERAL AND I AM LOOKING FOR EXPERIENCED INPUT. THANK YOU TO THISE WHO HAVE GOT BEYOND THIS HIGH HORSE BULLSHIT AND SENT ME MESSAGES.

rmcomprandy wrote:

octanehuffer wrote:Haha. Sheesh. Enough ego in here to change the subject matter from component selection to giving symantic opinions about what to call the guy who finish machines and fits and engine together? Sounds like you guys have your thumbs under your suspender straps well enough for me to just piss off I guess. I guess I should have hired a guy to chisel ingots of steel to hand fabricate every part of the engine. Would he then be properly called a machinist? But he couldn't then assemble it right? Cause then he'd just be called an engine assembler. And heaven forbid I give a guy premade items to assemble and machine the engine what needs machining. Any more more hoidy toidy terms you guys can think up for a person who does the same thing? We get it. The guy I'm giving my unfinished block to and premade items to is going to finish machining them to fit properly together, then assemble it. Don't really care if you guys fluff your feathers over terms to prove you are better than most. Got it. My engine machinist, engine assembler, engine blueprinter, engine builder, engine part machinist, whatever else you want to call him is the guy doing the work. I got a couple of pm's from members regarding these types here. Ask some questions and get ridiculed over an off topic and trivial subject.

You actually believe that you are being told these things for OUR benefit ...?

Go in whatever direction you choose ... I don't really care.

Scott Foxwell wrote:

octanehuffer wrote:

Scott Foxwell wrote:

octanehuffer wrote:Haha. Sheesh. Enough ego in here to change the subject matter from component selection to giving symantic opinions about what to call the guy who finish machines and fits and engine together? Sounds like you guys have your thumbs under your suspender straps well enough for me to just piss off I guess. I guess I should have hired a guy to chisel ingots of steel to hand fabricate every part of the engine. Would he then be properly called a machinist? But he couldn't then assemble it right? Cause then he'd just be called an engine assembler. And heaven forbid I give a guy premade items to assemble and machine the engine what needs machining. Any more more hoidy toidy terms you guys can think up for a person who does the same thing? We get it. The guy I'm giving my unfinished block to and premade items to is going to finish machining them to fit properly together, then assemble it. Don't really care if you guys fluff your feathers over terms to prove you are better than most. Got it. My engine machinist, engine assembler, engine blueprinter, engine builder, engine part machinist, whatever else you want to call him is the guy doing the work. I got a couple of pm's from members regarding these types here. Ask some questions and get ridiculed over an off topic and trivial subject.

I think part of the problem here is you made this sound like something that's WAY over your head as far as what parts you need vs. the power you're trying to make. You were all over the map here. Saying "this isn't the first engine I've ever built" was a little laughable given some of the comments you were making.
Have you ever built a 2K hp turbo engine? Has your engine builder?
If you want to assemble this engine in your garage, even if he's done the basic machine work to put the long block together, do you have a mill and lathe? You're going to need one. You're going to run into all sorts of things that are going to need special attention to detail in order to live at 2K hp.
Will you use the factory motor mounts or a motor plate of some sort? If you think you're just going to bolt on a set of motor mounts and call it good, you're fooling yourself.
When you start trying to bolt all this stuff together and realize about half of it fits like it's supposed to, then what?
I do this for a living and I can tell you that getting the basic long block together, having the right parts, making sure the clearances are right to live at the power you want to make, detailing the parts so they will live and make reliable power, getting things like valve piston clearance right, ring gaps, rocker geometry, push rod lengths, cam installed right...that's the easy part. The other thing to think about is maybe the reason your "engine builder" isn't so thrilled about doing this for you is because you're basically taking money out of his pocket by buying all your parts somewhere else. A BIG part of the way an engine builder makes a living is SELLING PARTS and you're taking that part of his profit away from him. He's right...it's not very exciting to just do the labor part of these builds and honestly, he should charge you extra to have to inspect YOUR parts to make sure they're what they're supposed to be. You don't know. You're just buying them from XYZ parts company and you really have no idea what you're getting or what to look for. Your engine builder has spent a big part of his career (hopefully) going through many different suppliers over the years and building reputations with them. He knows where he likes to get his parts from so he can be confident that he's getting what he's paying for and getting the best deal he can.
Bottom line here is you seem to be taking a lot of things for granted, mostly out of inexperience, that others are trying in their best way to help you understand. If you brought me a bunch of parts that you bought and wanted me to build you a 2K hp turbo engine, I'd probably say no unless just by chance, they were all the same parts I would choose to build the engine and that's not likely. I tell my customers, this may be your engine, but it has MY name on it. That's not ego talking, that's reputation and that's what we, as engine builders, live on and survive on. You don't just build (even a decent engine) and down the road just throw a turbo on it and make the kind of power you're talking about making. Maybe you have no concept of that kind of power, I don't know, but you either build an engine from the get go that will make 2K hp, 1500lbs/ft or what have you, or you don't.

Yes. This is my first engine of this caliber. Not for my builder. Who said anything about me assembling it? I've said several times now that I'm brining him my parts that HE HAS NO PROBLEM USING. I agree that they try to use their own parts. I build over 250 transmissions on an annual basis and sell parts as a means to keep labor costs down. If dude wants to bring me a bunch if parts that require extra labor, I'll charge extra labor. If I have to make honey out of horseshit, I'll charge extra. If dude wants me to use his parts, its extra labor to justify no parts sold. If MY builder charges me more for it, I don't give a single shit.  I really don't understand why this is of ANY concern in helping me choose my parts. I AM BUYING THE PARTS NEEDED TO HAVE A GUY BUILD MY ENGINE! I AM SIMPLY TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT COMPONENTS ARE REQUIRED. I DONT KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT GOOD COMBOS IN A BBF. MY BUILDER RECOMMENDED SEVERAL AND I AM LOOKING FOR EXPERIENCED INPUT. THANK YOU TO THISE WHO HAVE GOT BEYOND THIS HIGH HORSE BULLSHIT AND SENT ME MESSAGES.

If you're having someone build your engine, why are you here on the internet asking for multiple opinions instead of asking your engine builder? Does he not know?
Meh...whatever. I think the only "attitude" here is yours. You'll figure it out.