FE Flywhweel on a 460

Okay guys, in the research I've done, evidently it works. Some say you have to run an FE starter; some say run an FE Bendix gear assembly on the 460 starter, and yet others say the 460 starter works fine.
I'm a little confused as from what I gather, a 460 flywheel has 164 teeth, and an FE has 184 teeth. Am I missing something?

Internal FE stuff will swap, 428 stuff is external

dfree383 wrote:Internal FE stuff will swap, 428 stuff is external

Yes sir. I have an aftermarket flywheel on my 428 that has a removable counterweight, so it can be used on internal or external balance applications.

460 trucks typically have a 180 tooth and they are interchangeable with the 184, the “close enough” thing applys from my understanding

When guys use the 351M/400 bellhousing on an early 460 with a 390 flywheel they usually use the 351M/400 starter since the 351M/400 flywheel is also 184 tooth.

427John wrote:When guys use the 351M/400 bellhousing on an early 460 with a 390 flywheel they usually use the 351M/400 starter since the 351M/400 flywheel is also 184 tooth.

Awesome John, thank you!
Okay, I'm using a D9 bell housing, so I'm assuming that's a 351M/400 deal, therefore I will have to use the early internally balanced crank with this bell housing and my FE flywheel and the 351M/400 starter.
Well shoot, the crank and rods I have ready to go are the later externally balanced stuff. I know the rods don't care, but that means I'm going to have to machine up an early crank.
Allrighty then.

Yeah the rods don't matter but the crank does, There is an externally balanced flywheel for the late 460's used in the mid 80's pickups but from what I understand they have a little more standoff from the crank flange requiring a deeper bellhousing so that may not be compatible with the 351M/400 bell. I don't have a counterweighted 460 flywheel here to measure so I can't confirm that. Those flywheels are typically used with the aluminum hydraulic clutch bellhousings used in the mid 80's and later trucks. Since your truck is a late 80's vintage I would run the external balance crank and source the pedal box, clutch master cyl, flywheel, clutch, and bellhousing out of an 85 or later F-250/350 460 stick truck, you also have the option of running down a ZF-5 trans from a 2WD 460 truck so that you also get OD but that probably won't be a budget deal unless you get lucky and find a parts truck for a smoking deal.

Yeah, I'm not going to do any of that. I'll stick with the FE if I was forced to source all that other stuff.
You know, you mentioned about the standoff of the later crank, and that made me think back to a situation where a guy I know was looking for a manual bell housing for a 460 and I told him I have one. He asked if it was for sure for a 460 and not a 351M/400, because he tried one of those and either the flywheel itself was making contact with the bell housing or the clutch, I don't remember.
I thought it was odd back then but now since you told me that, it makes perfect sense. Thanks again, John! You're just a wealth of knowledge.

1EFF100 wrote:Okay guys, in the research I've done, evidently it works. Some say you have to run an FE starter; some say run an FE Bendix gear assembly on the 460 starter, and yet others say the 460 starter works fine.
I'm a little confused as from what I gather, a 460 flywheel has 164 teeth, and an FE has 184 teeth. Am I missing something?

The difernce is "what will work" and what will work 'Well"

The flywheel has 184 teeth for an FE and is 176 tooth for a 385 with both the same diameter.
SO, the tooth spacing is slightly different.

Thats exactly right Randy, I 've seen and heard of guys that did that swap and tried to use the 429/460 starter and it worked for a while and was either noisy on cranking or would go thru starters regularly or both, they seemed to have the best luck with the 390 flywheel in conjunction with the 351M/400 starter.

rmcomprandy wrote:

1EFF100 wrote:Okay guys, in the research I've done, evidently it works. Some say you have to run an FE starter; some say run an FE Bendix gear assembly on the 460 starter, and yet others say the 460 starter works fine.
I'm a little confused as from what I gather, a 460 flywheel has 164 teeth, and an FE has 184 teeth. Am I missing something?

The difernce is "what will work" and what will work 'Well"

The flywheel has 184 teeth for an FE and is 176 tooth for a 385 with both the same diameter.
SO, the tooth spacing is slightly different.

427John wrote:Thats exactly right Randy, I 've seen and heard of guys that did that swap and tried to use the 429/460 starter and it worked for a while and was either noisy on cranking or would go thru starters regularly or both, they seemed to have the best luck with the 390 flywheel in conjunction with the 351M/400 starter.

Okay guys, is there a "correct" way of doing this with what I have? I really don't want to put something together where I'm going to have to replace starters on a regular basis.
If there is no correct way, then I believe I'd just as soon stick with an FE.
Is there no 429/460 flywheel that works with the 351M/400 bell housing?

Do you already have a 460 external balance flywheel?

427John wrote:Do you already have a 460 external balance flywheel?

No sir. I have an internally balanced early 460 crank, though. Theoretically, that means I could use a 429 Mustang flywheel, I would think, which means the standard 460 starter should work.

You know, I don't know why this is so difficult now. 34 years ago, when I built my first 460, I swapped it into a '79 F-100 short bed, with a Toploader 4-speed. Back then I knew nothing about engine and transmission swaps, but it worked perfectly. I don't know which flywheel or clutch I used, but I know which bell housing because it's the very one I want to use now.
The engine that I used then was a 1970 D0VE-A block with the raised A on the front that started life as a 429. I swapped in the early 460 crank, so maybe I did use a 429 Mustang flywheel. Maybe the Mustang clutch as well.
I do know I never had starter problems.

I don't know what you used for a flywheel before, but the early 429 manual transmission cars used the C9AA bellhousing that had external ribs along with a 176 tooth flywheel, the 351M/400 70's truck used a 184 tooth flywheel in conjunction with D7,D9, and E1TA bellhousings. Most guys usually used a 390 flywheel with the early internal balanced 460 because years ago 360/390 flywheels were much easier to find and I'm guessing a lot of them just reused the original 351M/400 starters with no issues, but some guys that went and bought starters for a 460 application sometimes had issues, it was always a real hit or miss deal. The safest thing to do would be to pre install whatever flywheel and starter you go with along with the bellhousing on the engine before you drop it in the truck to make sure everything engages correctly. Provided that is done you shouldn't have any trouble.

427John wrote:I don't know what you used for a flywheel before, but the early 429 manual transmission cars used the C9AA bellhousing that had external ribs along with a 176 tooth flywheel, the 351M/400 70's truck used a 184 tooth flywheel in conjunction with D7,D9, and E1TA bellhousings. Most guys  usually used a 390 flywheel with the early internal balanced 460 because years ago 360/390 flywheels were much easier to find and I'm guessing  a lot of them just reused the original 351M/400 starters with no issues, but some guys that went and bought starters for a 460 application sometimes had issues, it was always a real hit or miss deal. The safest thing to do would be to pre install whatever flywheel and starter you go with along with the bellhousing on the engine before you drop it in the truck to make sure everything engages correctly. Provided that is done you shouldn't have any trouble.

A 3 bolt FE starter is what mates correctly with an FE 184 tooth flywheel; the third, (middle), bolt is not used.

rmcomprandy wrote:

427John wrote:I don't know what you used for a flywheel before, but the early 429 manual transmission cars used the C9AA bellhousing that had external ribs along with a 176 tooth flywheel, the 351M/400 70's truck used a 184 tooth flywheel in conjunction with D7,D9, and E1TA bellhousings. Most guys  usually used a 390 flywheel with the early internal balanced 460 because years ago 360/390 flywheels were much easier to find and I'm guessing  a lot of them just reused the original 351M/400 starters with no issues, but some guys that went and bought starters for a 460 application sometimes had issues, it was always a real hit or miss deal. The safest thing to do would be to pre install whatever flywheel and starter you go with along with the bellhousing on the engine before you drop it in the truck to make sure everything engages correctly. Provided that is done you shouldn't have any trouble.

A 3 bolt FE starter is what mates correctly with an FE 184 tooth flywheel; the third, (middle), bolt is not used.

Awesome! If that's the case, I'm good to go.
Thanks, Randy!