oil system mods

I was told to tap the area in the rear of the block at the top which is normally plugged and install a line from the front of the block where the oil pressure sending unit is to this to help feed oil to the mains..anyone got any info on this and suggestions of what size line etc??

thats an old Cleveland trick these blocks don't have that problem that I see....


Randy

ok thanks,I looked at a old issue of car craft and it mentioned it in a jim grubbs build after I was told about it.alrwady have a lot of oil system mods completed ie oil feed hole at filter chamfered and enlarged,all the returns have been smoothed and enlarged,lifter valley has been smoothed out and painted.just wanna make sure there are no oiling issues with this new motor.any other suggestions on ways to help out the oil system?

Kasse pump would be a big+.One of the problems w/BBF's is sometimes the oil pump as cast will snap. Alot of things could cause this,whether it be harmonic vibes,tire shake,etc. The Kasse pump is real beefy and I don't think will ever stress and break. You need to order a Seminar DVD from Damon Sea. Kasse talks about a cute little test he did w/his pump and a competitors pump.

Rick I agree the Kaase oil Pump is the Best hands down no question at all about that.....



Randy

Paul Kane has some very good info...
http://www.highflowdynamics.com

I am using a Kasse pump in my 598 that I am building.

longroofracer wrote:Paul Kane has some very good info...
http://www.highflowdynamics.com

yes Paul has some nice pumps but they are still mellings. Melling sometimes break at the mounting pad, I have had one break in years past....


Randy

Painting inside of an engine is never a good idea and it can cause problems if it decides to come loose. What is the intended purpose of the engine? Most applications 99% need no block oiling system modifications of any kind including a line to the back. What's strange about the whole oil pump breaking off issue is that nobody seems to know what causes this to happen. It must be mostly caused by tire shake vibration when drag racing. Believe it or not on the wet sump monster truck engines we've never broken a pump that I can think of even when jumping and running 120psi oil pressure. Yet I know some drag racers who have broken several even after much less run time....

DaveMcLain wrote:Painting inside of an engine is never a good idea and it can cause problems if it decides to come loose. What is the intended purpose of the engine? Most applications 99% need no block oiling system modifications of any kind including a line to the back. What's strange about the whole oil pump breaking off issue is that nobody seems to know what causes this to happen. It must be mostly caused by tire shake vibration when drag racing. Believe it or not on the wet sump monster truck engines we've never broken a pump that I can think of even when jumping and running 120psi oil pressure. Yet I know some drag racers who have broken several even after much less run time....

Dave,

WHY, were you running 120 psi of oil pressure?

Charlie

DaveMcLain wrote:Painting inside of an engine is never a good idea and it can cause problems if it decides to come loose. What is the intended purpose of the engine? Most applications 99% need no block oiling system modifications of any kind including a line to the back. What's strange about the whole oil pump breaking off issue is that nobody seems to know what causes this to happen. It must be mostly caused by tire shake vibration when drag racing. Believe it or not on the wet sump monster truck engines we've never broken a pump that I can think of even when jumping and running 120psi oil pressure. Yet I know some drag racers who have broken several even after much less run time....

its a 521in bracket mtr were going to run in 6.0 class,I shouldve said coated instead of painted,can't remember the name of the stuff but we ran it in our windsors in the past and it never broke loose and got in the motor,wasn't sure if the 385 engines needed it also,I've heard a lot of different opinions on upgrading the oil system on these motors.any info is helpful and welcomed

the Coug wrote:thats an old Cleveland trick these blocks don't have that problem that I see....


Randy

Not if you watch the power block. Last week they did a 302 with the same copper line BS. My point, believe 429-460 members long before believing car craft, hot rod or any other tv show/magazine.

Have a good day!

DaveMcLain wrote:...What's strange about the whole oil pump breaking off issue is that nobody seems to know what causes this to happen...

Dave, I can relate this to the aircraft engines (fighter) I work on... There are many, many cable & tube clamp set-ups all over the engines, that at first glance seem very random, even when stepping back and trying to logically decipher the reasoning. Recently, we had a brief from Pratt & Whitney on the importance of clamping accuracy (position, etc.), and were shown some high-speed film of an engine in operation. Let me tell you I was amazed at the movement illustrated (harmonics) where I never thought there would be. There have been aircraft lost and more importantly lives lost due to vibration that leads to cracks or worse in engine systems. The clamping I've tried to reason with is instrumental in dampening of vibration.

Even though big block Ford engines don't operate at the RPM level of a jet engine, I can see the vibration/harmonics still being there to cause catastrophic failure.

FWIW..

Why do we run 120lbs oil pressure? Because that's what's needed to keep the bearing life reasonable in the wet sump engine. For whatever reason if the pressure gets below 100lbs hot it will get rough on the bearings. I've tried it with 85lbs and it was not enough. We install the Moroso 351C oil pump spring with a thicker cup plug to get the pressure up in the engine. Another thing that's interesting is that this has never been rough on the oil pump drive gears but we've broken a roll pin once or twice.

I think what happens is that no matter what the oil pump always picks up a little air when doing monster truck maneuvers and having more pressure forces this air through the system more quickly and thus allows it to cause less damage. Generally speaking when running a coated bearing they will go about a year and a half before freshening.

In both trucks we have an oil light that comes on at about 50lbs. It NEVER blinks on the dry sump engine but it will occasionally flicker on the wet sump engine usually when the front end sets down after a long wheelie.

I think the pump breaking must be caused by low frequency vibration and not shock loading. I built a brace for the pump that extends down to the front main cap of the SVO block and that might help some too. We've never broken one in the monster truck engine but Wes broke one or two in his drag truck with a similar arrangement.

Yes, I think it was at a Windy Hollow Dragway, 2 out of 3 match race, between the two black trucks when Wes broke his oil pump one time. I remember a classy act on the part of Carl & George Keown, of them wanting to give some of their money for winning with Wes in order to help him out with engine repairs.

As for the oil pressure, years ago I saw 110 psi of pressure twist the hex end right off of a heavy duty intermediate drive shaft. I am surprised that it hasn't happened to you.

Charlie

It's never hurt a think much to my surprise. We've run the same bronze gear, ARP shaft and distributor for years without trouble.

That was a really fun trip when we came down to Windy Hollow with Wes' truck for the first time. Wes and I were just talking about that the other day, what a good bunch of guys we met down in KY etc. For whatever reason his truck has been tougher on oil pumps than any other vehicle that I know of with a big Ford.

It was really cool when you where racing your old flatty street rod..... Way cool in my book!!!

120 psi... that's sum serious oil pressure... well I'm def going t run a good quality arp or equivalent oil pump drive, someone else mentioned running a high volume pump instead of a high pres??? what's the thought of this???

buy a Kaase pump and never look back.

gonna order one monday,thnx for all the info to all

While we're not running the Kaase pump I do think it's about the best thing going. We've been running the Melling with the CJ style bolt on screen. I DON'T recommend cranking up the pressure like that for any other application because it's just not needed. Keeping the pressure at say 70-75lbs hot would be more than adequate.

On the wet sump monster truck we're also running an accumulator which might be helpful. On the truck there's an electrically operated solenoid valve that gets switched on before a cold start to give the engine a shot of oil. Before shutting off the valve gets switched off so that pressurized oil is stored in the accumulator for the next cold start.

I ran a touch over 130psi last night... Then again it was -28 celcius on a GE CF34-10E jet engine:)