Cars almost done.. But that starter issue still exists.

So my 78 Cougar is almost done..well.. drivable.

Got my last NOS trim on last week.



I'm *still* having starter troubles, and I don't undestand why. CarsbyCarl 523, a stock style flexplate, (Maybe he'll chime in with what type it is), Lincoln C6 from a Mark III. Nothing crazy here. I've had a few DB starters, and an OEM. They all will crank so loudly as to wake the dead. They'd crank for a second or two then BRRRRRRRAPPPPPPP!. I've tried removing some of the register on the starter, and slotting the lower mounting hole, which seemed to help. Still noisy as anything, but at least the starter would not grind against the flex plate.

After a few BRAPPPPPPP! (Very technical, bear with me), and re tightening the starter, I'd get a few more uses out of it... then the starter gives up the ghost.

crank crank crank ZINNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGG (like an old Mopar starter). I disassembled the starter, and I can't see anything that would cause that to happen. Flexplate amazingly, looks fine, and the starter teeth do as well. I'm tempted to change the block plate (its a litttle wavy? but seems to flatten out nicely when the starter is snugged against it), and the flexplate.

Wits End!!!

I ran into a problem like that on a vehicle a few years ago.....it had the wrong tooth count. If you get with your local parts guy he can give you the tooth count. Don't assume it's correct. Count to make sure. Would like to be more help, but that is critical. Starter drives also have different teeth to them so if either is off can cause a problem. George

The dbelectric has 10 teeth, and the OEM has 9 teeth.

I have run both tooth count i was told thats were they get some reduction to.I had to get
the starter deeper into the flywheel what i did was cut out my motor plate and then shim the starter back
until i got the distance i needed. i forgot what it was the guy from JW told me .Ever since then i have had 0
problems with starters.

It sounds like it is not engaging far enough then slipping off after a couple revolutions. Can you see of there is a wear pattern on the flywheel that is only on the edge of the teeth?

JTS557 sounds like he has the solution. There are Ford specific shims made by Help. Everybody says Ford starters are all the same but there are slight differences in how far out the starter gear comes and this small amount seems to cause problems for some people. I put a DB starter on my SBF and it sounds like a grinder is in there when I start it. I did some research and it appears I have to shim my starter out. Your problem sounds the opposite so I figure you must need to go the other way (like JTS mentioned). Before you hack up your engine plate you could try shimming it out first to see what difference that makes.

RobbMc has a trouble shooting guide here that might help you out.

I've ground up two starters and slotted the lower hole, so I could pivot the gear closer to the flexplate. I'll try to get some videos tonight.

I just got a starter from db for the 460 in the ranger I am running a mid plate so I used a washer the same thickness of the motor plate.I used the starter to turn the flex plate when I put the converter nuts on sound funny and I noticed it didn't look quite right to me but I left it alone.Put the dizzy in set the timing primed the carb up and tried to crank it it fired right up ran for 15 mins at 2000 rpms shout it down.Checked everything had to tighten 2 rockers alittle to loose for me it hyd cam so after it cooled down I hit the starter it kicked back and the starter sounded like it busted the abendics in it.S o I pulled it and looked it over real good nothing wrong with it so I benched tested it worked fine.I put it back on and left the washer out where the starter was right againest the trans.Tried it again fired right up and the starter sounded like a ford should and hasn't missed a lick after take the washers out that I shimed it with.

Jim

So you're saying you aren't running a motorplate or anything resembling one, and it's fine?



This is the OEM starter (I forgot how much bulkier these are to get installed).

Every once in awhile, it'll free wheel.. (first crank in the video). otherwise its extremely EXTREMELY loud. This starter isn't modified at all, just an OEM old style starter for a 460.

Are the OLD starters with the integral solenoid (Say from a Lincoln Mark 3) The same as the later units without the solenoid (but still old style)? I was wondering if the gear was a little closer to the flexplate versus the newer 'old style'.

that is the way mine sounded when i had it shimed out took the shim out and put the starter without anything againest the trans but the starter no motor plate or mid plate mine is this one from db http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-E-SERIES-VAN-STARTER-7-5L-460CID-92-93-94-95-96_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5639c76c40QQitemZ370336558144QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

I went thru some starter issues here. Couldn't get it shimmed right for anything. Turned out to be that the bell housing bolts were backing off slowly with the big cam engine shake. The tranny would be just a little bit pulled away from the block. New grade 8 bolts and lock washers did it for me. Ran the lower 2 thru the front and nutted them as well.

Just saying , check everything because sometimes its sneaky.

Well, whatever it is, I need to change the flexplate, I found two teeth missing. \

I guess I get to fix that block plate after all.

So. I have a good straight and true blockplate coming. What flex plate and starter should I be using? My engine is externally balanced. I really don't want to dig into this again.

What's a good flexplate for a stock converter and stock bellhousing?

Are you using the stock ford plate between the motor and trans? JW told me they like to see the starter gear at least .100 away from the flex plate. Also they said they have seen the starter gear go completly passed the flex plate gears. The stock ford plate is .060 thick.

psquare75 wrote:So. I have a good straight and true blockplate coming. What flex plate and starter should I be using? My engine is externally balanced. I really don't want to dig into this again.

If it's external balance ,you have to run an external balance flywheel (it has a weight about 3" long welded on it)

BIGDOG466 wrote:Are you using the stock ford plate between the motor and trans? JW told me they like to see the starter gear at least .100 away from the flex plate. Also they said they have seen the starter gear go completly passed the flex plate gears. The stock ford plate is .060 thick.

Yup, stock plate.

Where can one go to find the stock plate that goes between engine and tranny I need one and ford says they can't get them?

I got mine from Paul Kane, here on the board. I got another because I dont feel mine is straight.

Just throwing this out there. My setup with a flywheel (not flexplate), had a horrible sound when I first cranked it over. I needed a starter shim to make it right. I read through your post pretty quick, and didn't see it mentioned yet. I bought this one from NAPA.

patfromjersey wrote:Just throwing this out there. My setup with a flywheel (not flexplate), had a horrible sound when I first cranked it over. I needed a starter shim to make it right. I read through your post pretty quick, and didn't see it mentioned yet. I bought this one from NAPA.

Very good point do you have a price? How thick?

psquare75 wrote:I got mine from Paul Kane, here on the board. I got another because I dont feel mine is straight.

Who is Paul Kane is he a dealer or just a member? I don't have one period thats why I need one.

I had that shim in my 'spare parts box'. I tried it last night after turning the flexplate past the bad teeth. Still sounds just as awful.. It needs to be closer to the flexplate it seems, not further towards the front of the car.

Also, Paul Kane is here, and on the other board as well.

Fast Fox wrote:

psquare75 wrote:I got mine from Paul Kane, here on the board. I got another because I dont feel mine is straight.

Who is Paul Kane is he a dealer or just a member? I don't have one period thats why I need one.

Click here for Pauls website.

So.. I finally started to tackle this. Trans out and in with a new flexplate and good used block separator plate.

Odd. the new flexplate is.. maybeeeeeee 1/16" to 1/8" larger in diameter? Maybe the starter will line up now...