Roller Lifters.......

dfree383 April 26th 2010, 11:01 am

Starting to work on my next motor and I'm considering keyway lifters (Still Recovering from the Prices.... affraid

I've seen so far) Any Opinions? Looking to get into the 1.00" Lift Range but not sure of the most effective, cost effective and reasonably reliable way to get their........Hummmmmm????

1) Advantages?

2) Disadvantages?

3) Other options? Types?

4) Why 1.00" Lift? Is it worth the gains? How much is their to gain?

bruno April 26th 2010, 11:24 am

seems like a very high maintence engine ........ whats the application ?

i saw were you were inquiring about the cnc intake from Berry Motorsports ..... you gonna run efi ? turbo/blower ?

dfree383 April 26th 2010, 11:32 am

Yes, its the motor I was asking about the intake for.

Haven't decided on heads yet, maybe C's, Profilers, Thors or ???.

Probably 598" and 2x4 dominators.

windsor April 26th 2010, 12:10 pm

I would say "subscribed", but this site won't send me notifications (hint hint, Nick Razz

)

jones April 26th 2010, 12:18 pm

I told myself I would just watch this thread and not ask questions, but I have to ask.

Is the keyway oil pressure fed, bronze bushings, aluminum block only??? I would think you would be gaining some valvetrain weight and friction just for the increase in size and durability to run tombstone camshafts over 1.00 lift and 1,200lb+ springs. Is this correct?

dfree383 April 26th 2010, 1:02 pm

No keyway stuff can be used in Iron Blocks also, Only down side I see so far is Very Expensive. and you dont necessarily need springs in the 1200# range a 1" of lift either, alot depends on valvetrain design, geometry and desired RPM.

Lem made an interesting statment to me on the phone the other day when he questioned the old way of gaining rpm by putting bigger springs and not paying attention to the complete package. Sometimes just putting in bigger springs only covers up the real problems of unstable rockers, pushrods and poorly designed lobes or can actually make it worse.

Biggest thing you gain going to the keyway stuff from what I have gathered so far is and Increase in wheel and bearing size, which in turn makes the lifter more durable at Crazy Ramp speeds and bigger spring pressures.

rmcomprandy April 26th 2010, 1:37 pm

dfree383 wrote:No keyway stuff can be used in Iron Blocks also, Only down side I see so far is Very Expensive. and you dont necessarily need springs in the 1200# range a 1" of lift either, alot depends on valvetrain design, geometry and desired RPM.

Lem made an interesting statment to me on the phone the other day when he questioned the old way of gaining rpm by putting bigger springs and not paying attention to the complete package. Sometimes just putting in bigger springs only covers up the real problems of unstable rockers, pushrods and poorly designed lobes or can actually make it worse.

Biggest thing you gain going to the keyway stuff from what I have gathered so far is and Increase in wheel and bearing size, which in turn makes the lifter more durable at Crazy Ramp speeds and bigger spring pressures.

That's all very true...

dfree383 April 26th 2010, 2:23 pm

Is thier a reason (?? Side Loading,scuffing???) Why they do not offer a bigger wheel in the smaller diameter lifters (Like .850 wheel in a .875 body lifter?) to make things a little easier on builders?

Why do you need to go to a .937 or 1.062 body to get a .850 dia Wheel?

It would seem to me with a 460 for having a decent sized cam core, thier would be a large market for better lifters at a reasonable cost??

rmcomprandy April 26th 2010, 3:44 pm

The lifter bore is only that diameter across the middle ... it is smaller where the edges of the roller goes through.
The larger roller measurement from cross edges are the diameter which matters not their actual diameter.

BOSS 429 April 27th 2010, 12:08 am

dfree383 wrote:Starting to work on my next motor and I'm considering keyway lifters (Still Recovering from the Prices.... I've seen so far) Any Opinions? Looking to get into the 1.00" Lift Range but not sure of the most effective, cost effective and reasonably reliable way to get their........Hummmmmm????

1) Advantages?

2) Disadvantages?

3) Other options? Types?

4) Why 1.00" Lift? Is it worth the gains? How much is their to gain?

----------------------------

1) yes, 1 ADVANTAGE is able to line up pushrods ,better angle

2) cost

4) not sure what head you are going to use, but we have been going over 1. for a few years,not with keyway lifters,just comp cams

-RICH

BOSS 429 April 27th 2010, 12:11 am

dfree383 wrote:No keyway stuff can be used in Iron Blocks also, Only down side I see so far is Very Expensive. and you dont necessarily need springs in the 1200# range a 1" of lift either, alot depends on valvetrain design, geometry and desired RPM.

Lem made an interesting statment to me on the phone the other day when he questioned the old way of gaining rpm by putting bigger springs and not paying attention to the complete package. Sometimes just putting in bigger springs only covers up the real problems of unstable rockers, pushrods and poorly designed lobes or can actually make it worse.

Biggest thing you gain going to the keyway stuff from what I have gathered so far is and Increase in wheel and bearing size, which in turn makes the lifter more durable at Crazy Ramp speeds and bigger spring pressures.

i see keyway stuff in iron blocks , quite a few really a few dove blocks,2 boss 429 s

dfree383 April 27th 2010, 6:41 am

Rich,

Are You getting the Lift at the Lobe or Rocker Ratio?

What kind of life are you getting out of your lifters and what sizes are you using?

Are your lifter bores strait of offset? Bushed?

Dave

BOSS 429 April 28th 2010, 12:00 am

[quote="dfree383"]Rich,

Are You getting the Lift at the Lobe or Rocker Ratio?

WELL WITH WHAT WE DONT LOOSE WITH PUSHROD FLEX ,@ RETAINER,LOL,AND WE UP THE RATIO

What kind of life are you getting out of your lifters and what sizes are you using?

STOCK SIZE, I HAVE RAN SOME FOR 10 YEARS,AND IN 5 OR 6 DIFF ENGINES,ON 5 OR MORE DIFF CAMS

Are your lifter bores strait of offset? Bushed? , STRAIGHT, WE HAVE NEVER BUSHED THEM,I HAVE GUYS WHO HAVE,AND I JUST WORKED ON ONE THAT SHOULD BE,WHY? BECAUSE SOMEONE OVER CUT THE OIL HOLE IN LIFTER

OFFSET, HERES SOMETHING I JUST DONT HAVE ALL THE TIME TO TALK ABOUT RIGHT NOW, THERES A ENGINE ON THE STAND,LIFTER VALLEY ALL WELDED UP,CHANGED OFF SET TO ALLOW FOR BETTER ANGLE,AND 60MM CAM, WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT ANOTHER TIME

-RICH

dfree383 April 28th 2010, 7:25 pm

Care to share any pics of the modified lifter valley?

BOSS 429 April 28th 2010, 11:08 pm

pm sent

Outlaw5.0 April 29th 2010, 12:24 am

They also allow larger pushrods. The larger 1/2-9/16 pushrods can contact the cross bars.

c.evans April 29th 2010, 2:07 am

Dave,

Once you step up to the Mopar size lifter (.903"), you are able to go from the .750" roller to the .800" roller, which helps.

Charlie

dfree383 April 29th 2010, 6:46 am

Yep, I'd agree the mopar size stuff would be an improvement.

Are their any simple formulas to calculate what effect side loading a lifter has? Hp impact? I understand its best is to have everything lined up, but wheres the breaking point to cost / maintence / reliability.

The million $$$ question.......

Install a larger Diameter Conventionaly located Link Bar Lifter and deal with the side loading and maintence on the Valvetrain / Reduced RPM potential and reliability.

or

Spend the Big $$$ and Relocate the lifter bores, use keyway lifters, and 60mm cam core..........

Hummmmm.......

Lem Evans April 29th 2010, 9:32 am

The Jessel .903" drop in lifters have .820" wheels.

BOSS 429 April 29th 2010, 8:18 pm

Outlaw5.0 wrote:They also allow larger pushrods. The larger 1/2-9/16 pushrods can contact the cross bars.

WE USE A DOUBLE TAPPER TO KEEP THIS FROM HAPPENING

YES CAPS STUCK AGAIN

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