Maybe change the front while working on the back!

While my car is down for the installation of the new back half, I’ve been contemplating the idea of losing a bunch of weight off of the front. As much as I would like to use Strange or Lamb struts on the front, right now the cost would be way too high. So I came up with this idea to remove all of the sheet metal on the front and still use the stock struts and frame rails with the lightweight brakes I’m getting. Then install the fiberglass nose piece that VFN has. Any thoughts on this?

O.K., that looks like it can be done without spending alot of dollars??????????????????

That looks like a great idea. Just wondering if the remaining stock framerail piece will be rigid enough with the support structure removed?

You could just go ahead and front clip it and use some modified stock struts. We used to use the old Capri struts and they worked great. I've also seen Mazda struts used.

airford1 wrote:O.K., that looks like it can be done without spending alot of dollars??????????????????

True, I already have all the tubing on hand so that's a plus, just have to get the plate to replicate the top of the original strut towers and buy the fiberglass front.

BigDave65 wrote:That looks like a great idea. Just wondering if the remaining stock framerail piece will be rigid enough with the support structure removed?

I think it will be. You can't see them in that photo, but on the outside, back at the firewall I have some diagonals from the cage to the frame rail, and I could add some diagonals on the inside up front.

how much weight do you think it'd drop? the factory tin dont weigh out too fast.

cool40 wrote:how much weight do you think it'd drop? the factory tin don't weigh out too fast.

As for the tins. the biggest will be the radiator core support and the strut towers. Towers are really thick steel, somewhere between .125" and .180" thick. But the front bumper cover assembly will be the biggest lost. When all is said and done, I estimate we will lose almost 150 lbs off the front, maybe more. The new brakes alone will be 30 lbs lighter than what I have now. The fiberglass nose from VFN weighs 25 lbs. When I start on this, I'm going to weigh everything I take off and what I put back on and see what we get.

Doug,

Just another idea to throw out there. I like idea on the supports for keeping your current struts. Go ahead and get rid of the lower frame rails and put in some round tube. My car was built at first with the lower frame rails there and with round tube. Then they removed the oem rails later later. The rules for the class the builder was running said you had to have stock front frame rails, but there was nothing that said the suspension had to attach to them. Later, the rules were relaxed and they removed them and the same inner front sheet metal you want gone. They left the core support, wish it was gone, but they wanted something to bolt the stock front nose and sheet metal too.

My car was built with Strange struts, but your idea above would work with a round tube lower and the tubing would not cost too much.

I still have the front frame rails from when they chopped them out. AT LEAST 35 lbs each!

Couple of pics of the car under construction with all that crap in place:



now, with oem frame rails removed:
forgive the BBC, that was the builder's deal:



More pics of the build and details in these albums:
https://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/t%20bird/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ32

https://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/TBird%20at%20Home/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ32

https://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo186/dgcole01/T%20Bird%20mock%20up/

looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?

Thanks David! That thought had crossed my mind , but would add considerable cost to it . Right now I can do this for under $1000, not including the brakes. With the back half change and then using round tube on the front, I might as well do a whole round tube chassis.

bruno wrote:looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I could, but then I couldn't retire from Gulfstream.

Doug Rahn wrote:

bruno wrote:looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I could, but then I couldn't retire from Gulfstream.

lol ...... i just figured it wouldnt be much more ... your backhalfing the car to ???right ....

bruno wrote:

Doug Rahn wrote:

bruno wrote:looks great Doug , but why the change ? why dont you just build a chassis car ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I could, but then I couldn't retire from Gulfstream.

lol ...... i just figured it wouldnt be much more ... your backhalfing the car to ???right ....

Yes I am. Not including the tires and wheels I've already bought, the back half is about $5500 (frame rails, 4 links, anti roll, coilovers, new 9" rear and axles). I'm reusing my center section and Wilwood brakes. Then the cost of the changes to the back of the cage struts and x bars.

Doug,

Look at the CC plates from Skinny Kid or others that deal with that Mustang specific stuff. No need to get "that" plate for the top of the struts. Just source your own spherical bearing up there and fix the top of the struts in one location...

A few years ago there was a guy on Racingjunk that made a tube front for a Fox chassis. Basically chop off from the firewall forward and weld his stuff on. It used the factory style k-members and all... The "new" frame rails welded into the old raisl location. You can then tie them into the cage from the inside fairly easily too.

I've looked at doing this to mine a few times. I may chop off from the strut tower forward one day to lose a few pounds. That little bit is easy...

You might not really loose all that much weight from cutting out the inner fender panels/radiator support/strut towers after you factor in the extra tubing you will be putting back in up front to support the strut tops. Also you probably will need to add a few more bars to the drawing supporting the strut top. Depending on where the front motor plate falls it might be an idea to install an upright at that point to pull double duty as (A) a motor plate mounting point (vs using only the main frame rail) and (B) another strut bar/top support.

The big weight reduction will probably be the 'glass nose if you use real small tubing for the front end tree/mount assembly.

If I were to do it I'd lose the factory rails altogether. I've cut the nose off of a Fox before and while I didn't weigh it I know it took two of us to carry it away.


Doug, don't you have a front clip from a Fox at your place? Thought you had one you were going to make a jig with for k-members or something like that...

I'd get rid of all the factory rails in the process. Not a big deal to tie the rear to the front. Make the new rails mount the tubular k member, rack and suspension parts. it will look a whole lot better and get you a whole lot more engine room in the process.

If one were to have the skills you could run the lower rails low like a chassis car and mount the lower arms off of there...

If you not concerned about having the factory frame rails and shock towers I'd just cut everything out and start with a clean slate. Two lower rails like a chassis car with snout bars and some diagonal bracing. The fox body strut could be mounted solid like a chassis car with as much caster as you dare and build some adjustable lower control arms for camber adjustment. Racecraft sells lower ball joint cups for a lower control arm foundation.

we cut the core support and the inner fenderwells from the front of our fox, I think it was like a 25@ savings after the bracing etc. The fenders are light to begin with, the bumper cover plastic.................IMO its not worth it. If nothing Id just chassis the whole deal...............you'll find more weight saving by cutting the top off, gutting it and putting the skin back on..................there is 75#s of dead weight in the top.

ck out post # 155
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=427493&page=11

Doug have you thought about using a kit like this you could do away with the big upper plate to mount the struts. I am getting this kit I am changing my frontend over the winter to a tube strut frontend and do away with the heavy factory front on the Ranger.I will be using a Mazda RX7 frontend 5 lug under mine with the RX7 brake setup.I should be able to set it up for under $1000 the way I have it figured it will cost about $700. But always run into things that the reason I say I should get it under mine for less than $1000.When I get started on mine I will post up some pics as I go it will be after the 1st of the year.
Jim

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MUSTANG-1989-90-91-92-93-FRONT-COIL-OVER-CONVERSION-KIT-/180770165263?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item2a16bdd20f

This what my front looks like now

doug your killimg me -why the change

what your best and average sixty foot -ive been 1.24 and found some issues with the uppers so i expect it to go 1.1xxxxx

69F100 wrote:This what my front looks like now

Jim if you went to that much trouble why didn't you just build the whole frame?