Dry Sump System

Okay guys I need some help and tips to setting up a dry sump system for my race boat. I am going to be running a 513/514 depending on the forged crank we get. We should be running a sustained RPM of 6500rpms with a peek of 7300rpms when we suck air. I need to do a simple low cost system. Can you guys please help me get this going the right way the first time. I have never done one on a BBF and it has been a long time since I have even seen one one a cup car. Right now I am doing the assembly of my back up 513ci engine and would like to be able to convert it later as well.

There is no such thing as a low cost dry sump system.

rmcomprandy wrote:There is no such thing as a low cost dry sump system.

x2

Cost ,some Used parts maybe get away with $2K

how about an external oil pump system ?

badcoupe wrote:how about an external oil pump system ?

It aint a drysump but getting the pump and long azz pickup out of the pan can let a lot of positive things happen. It's not a slam dunk but with the proper planning and thought I'll be a big deal.

Other then the 2-3 quartz versus 7-8 quarts what's the advantage to a dry sump

badcoupe wrote:Other then the 2-3 quartz versus 7-8 quarts what's the advantage to a dry sump

Consistent and constant oil pressure under ALL attitudes and conditions.

How do you choose and picked the right system for engine

badcoupe wrote:How do you choose and picked the right system for engine

with your credit card!

cool40 wrote:

badcoupe wrote:How do you choose and picked the right system for engine

with your credit card!

Thats funny

Lem Evans wrote:

badcoupe wrote:how about an external oil pump system ?

It aint a drysump but getting the pump and long azz pickup out of the pan can let a lot of positive things happen. It's not a slam dunk but with the proper planning and thought I'll be a big deal.

We have been talking about that now that we have seen the cost of the Dry Sump. Now we have to start the planning on how to do it.

Thanks Lem !

badcoupe wrote:How do you choose and picked the right system for engine

After some thought about this question, I had to back up and consider how I chose the components for my system.
The pan design will help determine how many scavenge sections will be needed on the pump. My pan has notches for the O.E. front crossmember and made it neccesary to use 3 scavenge points. From my observations and talks with more experienced dry sump folks, I determined that most drag race applications are good with between 2 and 4 scavenges. 2 require a larger tank, and 4 may be overkill in some cases, adding cost.
The pump choice will be a personal preference for the user. I have customers that had good performance from Moroso pumps, so I chose that brand. They offer a special pump for the BBF deals with a larger 1.10" pressure section which seems to work nicely. Weaver pumps have a great history of performance and their support is also very strong. Some designs use gears (Weaver) , and some use rotors (Moroso)...I have seen good performance with either type. One $$ consideration is the scavenge outlets on the pump. The latest pumps have an internal manifold to gather all of the scavenge sections outlets and provide one #16 return line back to the tank. Earlier pumps required individual #12 lines or a separate $$ manifold to convert them to a single #16 return.
The tank design is also important. A tank with a removable top is very good to allow routine cleaning. Moroso and others will custom design a tank to fit your needs. I really like the one they made for me with a removable 0-ring sealed top cover.
Screened scavenge fittings for the pan are very nice. The fittings are great for catching things like slivers of valve springs and other harmful debris from reaching the pump. It is another good inspection point for your engine.
You need to decide which side of the engine to install the pump and how it will plumb. This takes careful study and planning to save money on hose, fittings and your accesssory mounting setup on the motor plate. Determining where to mount the remote oil filter also takes planning. Its is good to make all of your lines gravity drain when the filter is removed during an oil change.
It is good to spend some phone time talking with folks like Moroso, or Weaver to help lay out the best system for your car. There are more out there, but these are the ones that I am familiar with.
A typical aluminum custom drag pan will be $750 to $900, tanks will be in the $500 range and the pump will be in the $1200 range. The plumbing, drive system, filter and mount will add several hundreds of $$ more.
I hope this helps to give you things to consider on choosing a system.
Thanks,
Keith

Wow Awsome explanation

Seems very complicated I'm sure well worth it if your looking for every ounce of power.I think for me an external oil pump would be better for my budget and for the ease of operation.I have a fox body pan which sucks real bad, when I go through the traps I must turn my engine off so my titan pump doesn't suck no oil and take out my bearing.

Do you or could you post some pics of both systems? Thanks

Here are a couple of mine. This system was stuffed between the rails of my dragster. It was a very tight fit with no room to spare.

Looks killer how much would you say a external system would cost minus pan

Here some more info. I came accross searching for dry sump systems, they do have big block ford offerings. http://aviaid.com/index.htm
here are some schematics http://aviaid.com/schems/scems.htm

badcoupe wrote:Looks killer how much would you say a external system would cost minus pan

I don't know!

Curt wrote:

badcoupe wrote:Looks killer how much would you say a external system would cost minus pan

I don't know!

You must have the same mentality as me... Don't keep receipts!!!

jbozzelle wrote:

Curt wrote:

badcoupe wrote:Looks killer how much would you say a external system would cost minus pan

I don't know!

You must have the same mentality as me... Don't keep receipts!!!

No, I think he is asking about an external pump instead of a drysump. All I can say is less than what I have spent.

personally I would take it thru the filter before the Pump cuz if it picks up trash you have it going thru the pump then the filter, I would not do it like you have it cuz you are subjecting the pump to pan trash before the filter....

Personally, I would never put the oil filter on the suction side of a pump; maybe a simple screen fitting though.

Mike Steven's engine with the external pump had a Peterson 09-0403 filter on the suction side and a Jomar spin on filter on the pressure side of the pump. I'm not saying it's perfect but, it seems to work very well.

/\ What he said. I don't have a photo of Mike's, but here one on my stuff. It's been working very well for 3 years now since the cars been finished. I just need a better pan when it goes in the new project. I may even go dry sump this time around