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I'm not a chassis guy by any means, but if the frame rails aren't straight( from the difference in measurements it may be difficult to get the adjustment you need. You could baseline everything and start dropping plumb bobs to get a square reference to start making your adjustments. I hope I'm understand you questions correctly.

Measure from the axle centerline to the front eyelet centerline, that will give you the ladderbar length. Don't worry so much about centering the wheel in the sheetmetal, you need to find a point up on the front subframe to measure by, I think there are some factory holes up there someplace that are good to use for reference points

1/4" between the inner sidewall and frame/tubs is ok for a dragcar, you just need to make sure all the trackbar stuff is good n tight. Hard to tell thos bars almost look homemade??? maybe get a pic from the side? If there is any questionable stuff it needs to be addressed now IMO........



....oh and welcome to the site, we got some issues being hashed out so it may take a bit for things to settle back down lol.

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dont use the front end, there should be some factory cut looking holes on the front subframe, my fox isnt here or I'd go look, my 69 had some oval shaped holes and thats what I used..............even when I built the frontend.

There's a lot of guys on here that will be able to help you. Your gonna have to start from square reference points on the frame and go from there, and no the spindles aren't. Richter was right about he subframe being a good place to start, just be patient you may no like where this road is taking you and you may have to re do more than you would like.

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Barney wrote:There's a lot of guys on here that will be able to help you. Your gonna have to start from square reference points on the frame and go from there, and no the spindles aren't. Richter was right about he subframe being a good place to start, just be patient you may no like where this road is taking you and you may have to re do more than you would like.

i dont mind cutting the cross bar off and moving it,and the shock mount, but the frame might not be centered, i can live with that cause i was thinking of going with hoosiers 29x12s slicks... as for as moving the whole rear half no. or would it matter ?

I'm in the process of pulling the old lb stuff out of the 69 and putting the "better" lb stuff in, I can get some pics of the stuff as I do it, it looks similar. My frame rails I made from 2 x 3 ms tubing, angle cut the bends and welded it back together. The rails aint as big of a deal as the cross member, shock mounts, the housing and bars themselves. The lb brackets themselves need bracing to the housing rather than just welded on.

There are holes in the front subframe(went and looked at my wife's). These cars weren't built like a watch new and after 25yrs probably are worse, but it should get you in the ballpark to know where to start.

As has already been mentioned you need to start measuring everything first and find out what is straight/square and what is fuuked up before you ever consider cutting anything out.

Measure ALL the assorted frame structures & how/where they intersect other sections/components. Measure front to back, side to side, and crossing diagonally. Then run a centerline string nose to tail & compare how the components/frame/measurements "work" (straight & square or crooked) with the C/L string.

At this point the problem could be any damn thing. The crossmember could be in there crooked in relation to the car's centerline, one frame rail could be installed a little farther ahead/behind the other. Or the frame/chassis could be dead-nuts perfect, and they just fuuked up when they stretched the wheel openings.

richter69 wrote:I'm in the process of pulling the old lb stuff out of the 69 and putting the "better" lb stuff in, I can get some pics of the stuff as I do it, it looks similar. My frame rails I made from 2 x 3 ms tubing, angle cut the bends and welded it back together. The rails aint as big of a deal as the cross member, shock mounts, the housing and bars themselves. The lb brackets themselves need bracing to the housing rather than just welded on.

so on this car my lb s need more bracing ? thanks for the info. anymore you get later will help also.
i was just thinking....if i got to cut out the back half i got to cut the roll cage and alum paneling too

my 68 ss has comp eng lb s and are 32 long. i will measure like the man above said from the axle centerline to the front lb hole.

Barney wrote:There are holes in the front subframe(went and looked at my wife's). These cars weren't built like a watch new and after 25yrs probably are worse, but it should get you in the ballpark to know where to start.

thanks . also can i do this on my lift ? or do i need a level playing area ? my rack is not level anymore.and i know that my shop floor is cracked and leaning it might be hard to find i good place .i will check them holes out on friday, i got to find my plub bob now

Level would be preferable, I've never used a lift, but you could block and shim it level I suppose.

DILLIGASDAVE wrote:As has already been mentioned you need to start measuring everything first and find out what is straight/square and what is fuuked up before you ever consider cutting anything out.

Measure ALL the assorted frame structures & how/where they intersect other sections/components. Measure front to back, side to side, and crossing diagonally. Then run a centerline string nose to tail & compare how the components/frame/measurements "work" (straight & square or crooked) with the C/L string.

At this point the problem could be any damn thing. The crossmember could be in there crooked in relation to the car's centerline, one frame rail could be installed a little farther ahead/behind the other. Or the frame/chassis could be dead-nuts perfect, and they just fuuked up when they stretched the wheel openings.

thanks i just measured from the rear door jam to the axle center ,,not with a plumb bob i just taped it with 1 eye shut. .cause the tire looked off .hopefully its nothing ..or i might have to bale out of it . which i really dont want, i wanted a 10.0 all motor car. then a 250 shot just to see if 8.99s are possible.? will have to go automatic cause of my knees and reflexes arent lighten fast like they used to be.

Barney wrote:Level would be preferable, I've never used a lift, but you could block and shim it level I suppose.

ok i will have to make room then. i just need to get it high enough so my low / neck rest crepper can get under it good and my arms not jammed up.thanks
i did my 68 in 1995 and still have not moved or fired it up yet

Yea never use a lift, too much can move around. Set the car on stands, shim the stands if necesasary.


And it should be mentioned that you can't adjust side-vs-side wheelbase with one of the front ladder bar rod ends if the diagonal link is still installed. Doing so will kick the housing over to one side or the other, the greater the wheelbase adjustment the greater the housing's sideways move will be. The diagonal link must be unhooked first before trying to adjust for wheelbase with the front rod-ends.

Then after the wheelbase is adjusted & the rear housing is sitting square with the car's centerline do you reinstall & readjust the diagonal link.

when you adj wheelbase with the front ladder bar joint you'll only need to go at it one turn at a time,it'll move the wheel very fast. a good point on a fox body to measure from is the rear k-member bolts,they'll be more accurate than the "punched" holes in the subframe.if you can square the rearend in the car the rear subframe wont be a problem even if its a little off.

Thank you.everyone.i am really glad i found this site on a google search.
Most people .would have dogged me already. Not everyone is book smart.
I will have to get my 83 out of that spot and move the 86 in its spot
where do i level this car at in the rear..on the bottom of the newly installed 2x3 frame ?

As everyone has mentioned, you need to measure off of some common point on the front subframe. Look for factory holes, a mount for something that is shared on both sides, or anything else that is identical from left to right. You should be able to find 2 or 3 things fairly easily. Once you find these points, measure from them to the ladder bar crossmember tube. Remember to keep your tape measure straight, not pulled around any obstacles, etc.
If these measurements are all within 3/16", you're not too far off, and you should have any trouble. If the ladderbar crossmember is in the car square, then measure from the crossmember back to a common point on the rearend housing(nothing that has been welded onto the housing by a shop). Go to the edge of the brake rotor, or edge of housing end or something similar.
Youre biggest concern is that the ladder bar crossmember is square. If it is, you can work with everything else. Good luck!

2fox wrote:......where do i level this car at in the rear..on the bottom of the newly installed 2x3 frame ?

It really depends on what you're trying to do. Placing the rear stands somewhere on the new rear frame section, & the front stands somewhere on the stock front frame section might be OK as long as everything is in there straight & square to begin with.

If I'm trying to see just how straight/square/flexed/warped a race car might be that still has some amount of factory chassis/floor/firewall structure left intact (as in a stock, mini-tub, or back-half car) I usually like to place the stands under each end of both rocker panels (with engine/trans removed) on a level floor. How much it wobbles on the stands gives you a decent idea of just how level/warped the body it's self might be (front vs back, side vs side, & diagonally) to begin with. Then you can measure the various frame sections heights off the floor side vs side & compare to the rocker heights to see if they are fuuked or square too.

Finding out how warped things might be to begin has it's benefits. You never know, a "finished" race car body/chassis might have some unwanted diagonal warpage/flex unintentionally built into the car from the start by mistake. This can happen if the car wasn't leveled at first on the stands (front to back, side to side, diagonally) before the chassis/cage was installed. Welding the cage/frame into a car that's sitting "crooked" on the stands at the time pretty much sets that little mistake in stone.

On the bottom of the front subframes forward of the trans crossmember and before they kick up into the firewall are some factory holes. I've used those before when verifying my rear and new k-member was square in the car. Use these to measure and see if it's square in the car. You can even use the point where the trans crossmember mount is welded to the subframe. It's common to both sides of the car.

Then drop a plumb bof off the end of each axle out back and dust cover up front and measure front/back and diagonal.

I've seen some cars that were "slightly" crooked in the back that were "slightly" adjusted by loosening the k-member and rotating it... The car will go straight this way, but it'll look funny doing it...

I see you're up the road from me? Where'd the car come from?

jbozzelle wrote:On the bottom of the front subframes forward of the trans crossmember and before they kick up into the firewall are some factory holes. I've used those before when verifying my rear and new k-member was square in the car. Use these to measure and see if it's square in the car. You can even use the point where the trans crossmember mount is welded to the subframe. It's common to both sides of the car.

Then drop a plumb bof off the end of each axle out back and dust cover up front and measure front/back and diagonal.

I've seen some cars that were "slightly" crooked in the back that were "slightly" adjusted by loosening the k-member and rotating it... The car will go straight this way, but it'll look funny doing it...

I see you're up the road from me? Where'd the car come from?

the.car i was told was.done up at a fab sbop in Addis la.it.hada 4.cylonder in it.it juzt got tubbed never seen or road or a drovetrain.the owner had a built sbf.but waiting to ger into dirt racing...so dont really know the deal on the car
i already hada bad 83 ..and i got a truck woth a built.408 also worh less comp.and cam i was.going to take the motor.out the 83 put it in the 86 ..and put my truxk motor in the 83 with air so i can drice ot everyday

Ok i only had time to do a quick check today.
The ladder bars are.about 31 inches long..my chevelle are 32.
Ok this is the way i did it.also i did this just with the car.on the ground back half sits lower then front like in pic.above
i hung the bob over the.rearend housing at the.rear.and to the laddder bar bottom bolt hole
I came.up with
drivers.side 33 5/8
Pass. Side 33 7/16
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I went off the.front.sub frame.bolt.at first but.forgot to block the.wheels it was.1 inch off on rhw.last side i did.
Is this.close or do i need to jack it up level.it?
With beeing.off.3/16 do i just split the.differance.on both sides.let me know
thanks

im goinv to

The front subframe bolts have a fair bit of adjustment to get the kmember squared in there. I'd use the trams crossmember tabs on the subframe. Those can't move like the subframe bolts can.