Bruno's Edelbrock's

Okay Guys,

Many of you know Nick has Edelbrock heads on his engine, and you've seen him run here at the Ford Bash. Likewise most of you know his heads have been CNC ported by another company and that his intake runner volume is 340 cc. His valve sizes were 2.190" which is what the Edelbrocks come with and 1.760".

In another thread I think Nick posted his flow numbers. They were;

Intakes; .200=151, .300=225, .400=277, .500=315, .600=347, .700=364, .800=380 cfm.
Exhausts; .200=112, .300=150, .400=179, .500=200, .600=215, .700=223, 800=228 cfm.

So some of us convinced him to send the heads to Uncle Charlie and have some larger intake valves installed. The consenous was that the valves were too little for that big port. So when I got them I did a baseline flow test after cleaning the heads and valves. Here is what I got, and is an average of all four ports in one head.

Intakes; .100=66.5, .200=143.8, .300=215, .400=276.8, .500=308.3, .600=340, .700=360.5, .800=376.5 cfm.
Exhausts; .100=52.8, .200=103.3, .300=142, .400=173.3, .500=196.3, .600=215.3, .700=228.5, .800=235 cfm.

As you can see, in most cases my numbers were a little smaller than his, except in a couple of places. But that's no problem, blame it on flow benches, or advertising, or whatever. The bottom line is that I still wanted to baseline the heads on our bench.

So after looking things over, I wasn't very happy with the existing valve job, and new that we could make an improvement there. We installed new FRPP A-429 intake valves and exhaust valves. The intakes represented a step up in size from the 2.190" to 2.250". The exhausts stayed the same size, but the FRPP A-429 valve has an excellent tulip shape that is hard to beat and flows really good.

Results after the valve job. I did NOT touch the intake ports. Nick has already had trouble with them pissing a stream and had them repaired. I think they are too big in volume anyway. Nick did ask me to see if I could rub on the exhaust and help them flow, which I did a little bit in some specific areas. His new flow numbers are;

Intakes; .100=71.5, .200=157.4, .300=241.1, .400=289.3, .500=321.4, .600=349.4, .700=369.3, .800=384.1 cfm.
Exhausts; .100=55.8, .200=110.6, .300=151.8, .400=191, .500=217, .600=233.1, .700=238.1, .800=238.4 cfm.

Note; All exhaust flow numbers are WITHOUT a test pipe. Pipe numbers will be a lot higher.

So this rework shows the following gains.

Intakes; .100=+5, .200=+14.1, .300=+26.1, .400=+12.5, .500=+13.1, .600=+9.4, .700=+8.5, .800=+7.6 cfm.
Exhausts; .100=+3, .200=+7.3, .300=+9.8, .400=+17.7, .500=+20.7, .600=+17.8, .700=+9.6, .800=+3.4 cfm.

IMO the most important thing we did, was increase his mid-lift flow numbers. His baseline intake total was 2087.2 cfm and his average was 260.9 cfm for the eight lift points. His exhaust baseline total was 1346.5 cfm and his average was 168.9 cfm.

His new numbers are, intake total 2183.5 cfm and his average is 272.9 cfm. His exhaust numbers total 1435.8 cfm, and his average is 179.5 cfm. That is a 4.6% gain in intake flow across the board, and a 6.7% gain in exhaust flow across the board. All in all, I'm pleased with what we were able to do and the gains that were made. I'm very hopeful that his engine will run a bunch better.

Now then, I am still not in love with the Edelbrock 429/460 heads. These ports were 340 cubic centimeters (cc) in volume, each intake port had to be welded on, (on the roof) and the heads had a toal of 5 pushrod tubes epoxied in. 2 intakes and 1 exhaust in one head, and 2 intakes in the other head.

I still think the TFS Street heads are a much better value, either out of the box or fully ported. I have ported a few sets of the Edelbrock heads and I've ported dozens of sets of the TFS Street heads, so I'm probally a pretty good judge of these heads.

Blakes fully ported TFS Street heads have an intake total of 2214.6 cfm and that's with a 2.250" valve. His average flow is 276.8 cfm, and his intake port volume was 290 ccs before porting and is probally around 305 ccs now. I did not measure Blakes intake volume and that's something we should probally do. There is a BIG difference there in terms of port velocity. Also Blake's exhaust totals 1464.9 cfm and the average is 183.1 cfm with the standard size 1.760" valve. After the Winter Tech Seminar, Blake rebuilt his engine and came back and dynoed it again and his 557 CID engine made 861 Hp with the above ported TFS Street heads. Guys, those are good numbers, and Blake and I both think that this port velocity issue is largely responsible for those good numbers.

Let me go on and mention Joe Toney's TFS Street heads and the reason why is because, his use the smaller TFS 2.200 valves, just they way they came from TFS. I ported his heads and his totals were; Intakes=2201.8 cfm and his average was 275.2 cfm. His exhaust toal was 1441.6 cfm and his average was 180.2 cfm.

Again let me explain that when I say "totals", all I'm doing is adding up the .100" through .800" lift values and then dividing that by eight in order to get the "average" flow numbers.

Nick gave me permission to post, so I hope this helps,

Edited to correct his baseline number @ .700" from 369 down to 360,(crossed eyes).
__________________
Charlie Evans

Mighty impressive Nick.

My Eddy's are just out of the box with an exhaust clean up by me , I think if I were to buy new again I would have chipped in the extra 200 and get some TFS stuff. It seems they flow a bit better out of the box.

I have been happy with what I have it is after all just a street engine, and it is really cool to see the posiblities.

Just my .02!!

Bill

Thats Cool man

Who did the cnc porting on these heads originally ?

5pointslow wrote:Who did the cnc porting on these heads originally ?

Good question, if im not mistaken Steve Vance , he also repaired the one of the ports for me ........ , then Charlie Evans work on them some

5pointslow wrote:Who did the cnc porting on these heads originally ?

Personally, I would simply start with a better head. A Trick Flow 325 perhaps ... unless you already own Edelbrock's.

rmcomprandy wrote:

5pointslow wrote:Who did the cnc porting on these heads originally ?

Personally, I would simply start with a better head. A Trick Flow 325 perhaps ... unless you already own Edelbrock's.

I do already own them just trying to get a game plan for after the 2021 season when motor is out to be freshened up to get some more power out of it. I could sell these heads and try to get a set of used ported tfs streets or get piston notched for scj heads and upgrade

made 650hp with out of the box heads eddy heads
472 ci 12-1 compression
Your custom Flat tappet cam
vicktor intake with a 1080 dominator on vp 113

possibly get heads ported and intake or try a mafia intake
solid roller cam to move the power up and spin it a little more
vaccum pump

its been 9.77 at 133 in good air all out and i would like to get into the 9.30s to run 9.50 index after this season (2022). I'm not opposed to new heads as i feel scj or p51 im sure would be the ticket . Selling my heads maybe the best route and the money i would get for them plus the port work would most likely cancel out a set of scj or p51 heads but those TFS 325s would bolt right on and im sure vs the eddys the would be a nice improvement there alone

5pointslow wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

5pointslow wrote:Who did the cnc porting on these heads originally ?

Personally, I would simply start with a better head. A Trick Flow 325 perhaps ... unless you already own Edelbrock's.

I do already own them just trying to get a game plan for after the 2021 season when motor is out to be freshened up to get some more power out of it. I could sell these heads and try to get a set of used ported tfs streets or get piston notched for scj heads and upgrade

made 650hp with out of the box heads eddy heads
472 ci 12-1 compression
Your custom Flat tappet cam
vicktor intake with a 1080 dominator on vp 113

possibly get heads ported and intake or try a mafia intake
solid roller cam to move the power up and spin it a little more
vaccum pump

its been 9.77 at 133 in good air all out and i would like to get into the 9.30s to run 9.50 index after this season (2022). I'm not opposed to new heads as i feel scj or p51 im sure would be the ticket . Selling my heads maybe the best route and the money i would get for them plus the port work would most likely cancel out a set of scj or p51 heads but those TFS 325s would bolt right on and im sure vs the eddys the would be a nice improvement there alone

Have you considered keeping the current combo together and building a new engine? I know it won’t be inexpensive but you can take a year or two to build it then sell or keep you’re current engine as a spare. The TFS290’s are better than the Edelbrocks but they still don’t hold a candle to a set of P51’s or AFR’s or SR71’s or A-Heads.

wickettoby1 wrote:

5pointslow wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

5pointslow wrote:Who did the cnc porting on these heads originally ?

Personally, I would simply start with a better head. A Trick Flow 325 perhaps ... unless you already own Edelbrock's.

I do already own them just trying to get a game plan for after the 2021 season when motor is out to be freshened up to get some more power out of it. I could sell these heads and try to get a set of used ported tfs streets or get piston notched for scj heads and upgrade

made 650hp with out of the box heads eddy heads
472 ci 12-1 compression
Your custom Flat tappet cam
vicktor intake with a 1080 dominator on vp 113

possibly get heads ported and intake or try a mafia intake
solid roller cam to move the power up and spin it a little more
vaccum pump

its been 9.77 at 133 in good air all out and i would like to get into the 9.30s to run 9.50 index after this season (2022). I'm not opposed to new heads as i feel scj or p51 im sure would be the ticket . Selling my heads maybe the best route and the money i would get for them plus the port work would most likely cancel out a set of scj or p51 heads but those TFS 325s would bolt right on and im sure vs the eddys the would be a nice improvement there alone

Have you considered keeping the current combo together and building a new engine? I know it won’t be inexpensive but you can take a year or two to build it then sell or keep you’re current engine as a spare. The TFS290’s are better than the Edelbrocks but they still don’t hold a candle to a set of P51’s or AFR’s or SR71’s or A-Heads.

Yeah that has crossed my mind as well

Slashing almost half a second off of you’re ET is a lot to ask from porting a set of heads and a cam change, not saying it’s impossible but it’s a tall order. Is there a chance that the car can go on a diet? Less weight should be cheaper than more power.

wickettoby1 wrote:Slashing almost half a second off of you’re ET is a lot to ask from porting a set of heads and a cam change, not saying it’s impossible but it’s a tall order. Is there a chance that the car can go on a diet? Less weight should be cheaper than more power.

Yeah thats kind of the problem
I know a 521,528 or somthing along those lines with some better heads would be the hot ticket

Sit down and add up what it would take $$ wise to freshen and potentially get to the goal with youre current combo.
Cyl Head Porting
Gasket Set
Cam/Lifters
Valve Springs
Decking the heads for more comp ratio (possibly)
Bearings (possibly)
Rings (possibly)
Intake (possibly)
Bigger Carb (possibly)
Vaccum Pump (possibly)

I bet you find that to meet youre goals its going to take quite a bit of $$ and there wont be much room to grow.

Sell the Eddy’s and get a set of SR-71s.

738drvr wrote:Sell the Eddy’s and get a set of SR-71s.

Wouldn't you also need a set of pistons, different valve reliefs?

Send yours to Kaase. He’ll cut reliefs for cheap.

That head is good for at least 100hp above where you are now.

5pointslow wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

5pointslow wrote:Who did the cnc porting on these heads originally ?

Personally, I would simply start with a better head. A Trick Flow 325 perhaps ... unless you already own Edelbrock's.

I do already own them just trying to get a game plan for after the 2021 season when motor is out to be freshened up to get some more power out of it. I could sell these heads and try to get a set of used ported tfs streets or get piston notched for scj heads and upgrade

made 650hp with out of the box heads eddy heads
472 ci 12-1 compression
Your custom Flat tappet cam
vicktor intake with a 1080 dominator on vp 113

possibly get heads ported and intake or try a mafia intake
solid roller cam to move the power up and spin it a little more
vaccum pump

its been 9.77 at 133 in good air all out and i would like to get into the 9.30s to run 9.50 index after this season (2022). I'm not opposed to new heads as i feel scj or p51 im sure would be the ticket . Selling my heads maybe the best route and the money i would get for them plus the port work would most likely cancel out a set of scj or p51 heads but those TFS 325s would bolt right on and im sure vs the eddys the would be a nice improvement there alone

My 521 ran 9.20 on just motor , with a tight nitrous converter ...... my 562 ran 8.60 on just the plate .....125 shotand the heads freshen up , i know it ran 5.80 on just motor with the 562 ....... car was at 3200 with me in it....