Newbie from overseas!

Hi all on the 429 - 460 forum. I have been a member on the 460ford and Torino Cobra forums. I use the same ID for all. Here are a couple of my machines ... I have been at this a long time, but I always enjoy new info and technical advances. I think it is fair to say that only in the last 6-7 years has the BBF engine truly come into its own as a major contender on any motorsport activity. It lacked factory support after 1972 and not much attention was given to its development until after Glidden et al started winning races with it.



Cobra Jet; a mock up display of a 474CID engine.



1985 Mustang GT. Fully worked and streetable 429 CJ -C-6

glad to have you over here , welcome to the site and you sure do have some beautiful machines

Is that a mid '70s Lincoln in the background!!!

Overseas is a big place. Where you at??

Hi guys:

I´m in Iceland. Yes, the Lincoln in the background is a ´79 Williamsburg Edition, burgundy on top, sides are metallic rose, burgundy leather interior. 40K miles .... and I have been trying to convince my buddy who owns the car to let me build him a massive 466. Sad to say, the M - 400 engine just does not get the job done, besides it sounds wrong for a Lincoln.

G.

In the '70s and early '80s, I was a tech and service manager in the one of the oldest Ford Lincoln Mercury dealerships outside of the Detroit Metro area (Henry's niece). I was around those cars all the time. Gas mileage and the economy made the 400M standard issue for the '79 models. Since the economy was slow, those cars sat all over the lot. I remember moving them around and thinking how massive they were. I'm 6'3" and couldn't touch the firewall with my feet!!! I could move the seat ahead to be comfortable!!! But I also remember thinking...WHO TO HELL WOULD PAY $7000.00 for a car!!!!!!!
Take care,
Gary

Yeah, I bought a number of these cars in the US in the early nineties and had them shipped overseas. There were problems getting them registered and inspected for emissions and other things ... so I turned to Fords homologation and testing division and asked for help.

The people I talked to just could not belive that a 1979 car would have to meet US / EPA 87/88 emissions, retroactively, but those were the rules, stupid as they were. So, Ford sent me to the US EPA certification and testing facility in Ann Arbor MI and people there were just as astonished over this nonsense, testing cars retroactively ... So Ann Arbor ... sent me the 1978 certification levels for the 1979 Lincoln with the 400CID engine.

Bingo! As it turned out, the 400 engine as it was tested in November 1978 met and surpassed EPA standards that were written into law ten years later - except for NOX emissions. Everything else checked out.

But, as for the Lincoln, it should have at least 500ft lbs on the shaft. The old MEL 462 was great.My dad had a 1968 Continental with that engine. It was one of the fastest full size cars I ever drove. But the top of course came in 1969-70 with the A-code 460 delivering the magic number 500 ft.lbs.
G

Do you have to certify the emissions every time that you get plates, yearly, or was that one time for the import process?

Gary, yes this was a one time hurdle enacted into law, copied from the European Union.

All this mumbo is part and parcel of the effort constantly in effect in may countries - to keep cars produced by someone else out of the local market area. Those silly rules were enacted without any consideration of the law. They even refused to register the car in question after we presented official US documents confirming that this 1979 Lincoln met the 87/88 EPA stipulations for HC, C02, CO and particle emissions.

They gave in after we pointed out to them that it was illegal under constitutional law to enact legislation retroactively. An infringment upon constutional law so basic that it borders on the absurd to even have to point out. But, when you deal with the government, you have no rights, you must be ready to prove your innocence at all points and information gathered in your favor is inadmissible, unless THEY have obtained it for use AGAINST you or from sources that THEY decide are legitimate - in their favor, of course. But we won and now the beautiful dark blue Collector Series that came out of a private collection in New Hampshire stands rusting outside a hangar .... We sold it may years ago, regrettably, only to see it driven on the street on a daily basis, then rust, then damage, then drunken teenagers having it off in the back seat; the whole spiral and no repairs on this mint 36.000 mile car. Then came the "rescue".

Which brings us to the real problem with valuable cars .... the buff ... the grease monkey ... the FAN, you know the nut that goes to the local hardware store and buys himself the beginners chrome vanadium tools. Then he starts "restoring" the gem he picked up from somebody´s barn. The run of events is always the same: It ends up in a yard, disassembled, most loose parts lost, owner refuses to sell because he is absolutely going to restore the car .... then to the crusher and everybody else is to blame.

Happy trails to all.

Many a fine car has met its fate that way........

All too true!!!!!! Before there was a name for it, I was a picker. I would chase down leads, knock on doors, and peek in barns. In days of old, people would sell stuff. Now, it is kept as a monument, never finished project, or just for someday. I found roadster Ts to CJ Torinos rotting away in improper storage!!

Oh, well. It is theirs to do with as they please. Our government protects that right...or do they????

Gary, this a very strange phenomenon.

The people who find themselves in this situation are experiencing some kind of delusion mixed with a distorted self image problem. They or most of them anyway, should realize they will never get anything done. The worst cases concern guys who do not have any craftsman skills - can not do any of the work themselves. That one takes the kick for deadbeat restorers.

It´s an emotional issue for many and for them to refuse to let go of the gem rusting in the yeard is like refusing to bury a dead relative. This is why you are always at risk of facing a double barrel Winhester or a Pitbull with aids when you approach a rustbucket in a field. The not so friendly respondents in most of these cases fal into the same category. What proves it is that most of them will not even hear a sentence where dollars are mentioned. For these guys it is not about money, EVEN if they have none and don´t even try to get some to start the work.

Secondly this is a question of self esteem and the holiest of the holy, to be admiddded to the local story telling and bench racing session. And the conversation goes like: "Ah Mo, so you have a genuine J - code w. drag pack equipment that you are beginning to restore?" Says Mo: "Yup, bought a can of WD-40 last week and a stainless Allen screwdriver in 1998" It´s moving right along! All the buddies gather round to hear the grand design for the old factory racers´ grand comeback in 2035. It´s the 300 year plan. I mean, I have friends and acquaintances who took the plates off their cars before 1980 and are still restoring them ... and we are not talking about Shelbys or J-codes neither. Some are just run of the mill cars that will never enjoy any collector car status.

But the issue with these buffs that hang on to their gems like we were discussing before is that they feel that their stature in society will diminish if they part with them. Their buddies at the local Country Kitchen will no longer repect them. No one will say they are cool because they let go of the admission ticket.

I know of many interesting cars in this situation and desirable engines and other stuff that no one is allowed to touch.

I´m too wordy and I owe money for having done too much in too little time .. but heck, ... .if you can not get a salvageable car back on its feet in three years, chances are it won´t get done.

GCJ

Damn, don't hold anything back!!!!!!!!! Your responce is one of the best theories that I have heard in a long time. It really as a 'ring of truth' to it! I have sealed the deal a couple of times by promising that the seller could have visitation rights or that the seller will be credited for their contribution. Once in a great while, one of those sellers will come by to inspect their parts.

Good thoughts!!!

I´m guilty too of a lot of the stuff that I was griping about before ... and oh yes, sorry about all the typos ... Well I hope I have not hurt anybody with my remarks... I have spent money on stuff that I could not afford and somehow managed to move along over the years.

Now, as for the other side of the coin, for those of us who actually have stuff that we need to sell here is another one.

I advertised one of my cars a couple of years ago. Got no responses from the crowd except from those dreamers who think they should get stuff for free because of all kinds of faults they find with your item. In this case it was a big block Mustang in perfect shape with over 450 horses on tap, low mileage and clean inside out.

Up comes this kid who starts to argue with me why he should get the car at half price. His reasoning was that in the case of extreme driving the engine might go bust, so he thought it only fair that I should pay for the repairs up front, since the purported failure of the engine was due to a hidden fault, built in by me!

It gets even better. Ever since 1976 I have experienced the same problems with these guys. They first cry over the price, then they can not pay, then when the time comes to collect the money, they have sold the car onwards .....

Then, when you think you have a genuine article, say a nice ´69 S-code GT Mustang .. not a common car, but a very interesting one. Let us say that this car in 100% original state is worth 40 grand and you have a car that is 90% correct, color, wheels, engine block with VINs, heads, intake, aircleaner, interior and rear end .. but has a few small items missing, like snorkel, correct hoses and belts, exhaust tips missing and so on.

Up shows this dude with his brother - in - law, who is a real resto expert. Between them these two will start a negotiation that far exceeds the price of the missing parts. Many fall for this and sell at a discount, giving away large sums of money to people who do nothiing but flip the car and make a buck the next day.

It is not easy, I´ll give you that, but as for the thousands of cars rusting away in yards or damp buildings there is yet another problem.

I have bought, restored and enjoyed several such cars and brought them back to former glory. Then I sold them as is known to have happened to some of us. In all too many cases these cars then fall into the hands of people who THINK they have some business owning old muscle cars or the like. Some of them then find out that the car may be more fun to look at than to drive .. or they run out of money. Which brings us to the next step down the ladder: The car gets sold at a lower price to a jerk who wants to drive the hell out of it, then starts selling off parts, like the engine or wheels etc. He then sells it to another jerk who want to change it into another customized creation, paints it pink, installs a diesel engine and even four wheel drive.

The gem is now officially on its way to another barn or backyard, where the next owner has grandiose plans to restore it to yeat another status. Add to this story as you like.

In my case this involves a beat up sixties big block Ford convertible that I found sitting behind a dealership in a mid-western town. Started it up, added brake fluid and drove home. Started gathering parts: I dound excellent quarter panels in Texas; a decent fuel tank in Utah, a wrecked car of the same year with a good frame in Wisconsin (yes, 60´s Fords have a notorious rust issue on the left side of the frame, rear); bought a new conv. top, boot and well liner from JC Whitney; then had the interior redone 100% correct, seats and door panels, new carpets from JCW; found a ´69 390 and C-6 which I rebuilt and modified in a tasteful way. It took more than three years of work AFTER I had found all the parts. It cost 25.000 dollars to do and that is not counting the hundreds of hours I donated of my own time to this project. When the car had received its blue paint and white top and I drove it out of the shop, people gasped.

I sold this gem five years ago for half of what it cost me to build. It now sits rusting, convertible top torn to shreds, seats torn, carpet rotted, engine and trans gone, original two piece hub caps gone and the elf who owns it thinks he will restore it one day.

I rest my case.
GCJ