Titanium Valves

When do you guys start thinking about titanium valves? Is it an rpm thing, valve lift, spring pressure?

New gearing combo has me crossing the finish at 7200 with my 572. ex514 heads with ferea 7000 series stainless valves and a lem spec comp cam ~.780 lift with 220lbs seat pressure.

dkp

what size valve ?

it also depends on the lobe(shape) and valve springs.

What springs are your running ?

G

IMO its more of a budget thing, If you can afford them its a good idea to get them, at least on the intakes.

We have had some debates on them in the past and some claim its actually cheaper in the long run to use them, the numbers seem pretty consistant in suggesting that they are correct in this. But but it comes back to the initial investment (Typicaly about $100+/- more per valve).

Also you get into some seat issues for where and cost of coating them vs copper seats...... again $$$$$.

SS works but Titanium is better and substantialy more expensive.

It never ends !!!!

I suspect it's a 2.350" intake valve in those EX 514 heads. I believe the Ferrea is one of the heavier stainless steel valves out there on the market and that one should weigh 164- 168 gms. Weigh it and see. I'm not sure about the 7000 series, I knew they had a 6000 series and it is the cheaper series, but I'll have to check on the 7000 series.

1. A titanium valve will increase the life of your valve springs as compared to stainless steel valves with all other factors being equal.
2. 220 lbs. on the seat is a little light for that big of a valve imo. You could probably shim the valve springs and do okay.
3. You can look for signs of valve float. The tip of the valve will get a wagon wheel spoke design imprinted on it.
4. If you are floating the valves, we generally see the seat in the head become wider than we cut it.
5. If you hear a finish line miss, and it is not electrical or due to a lean carb, and you're sure that's it's not those other two items, then it may be your valves floating.
6. If you see any signs of the valve clipping each other on the margin, then it's a sign of possible valve float.
7. If the black oxide coating on your seat cups is worn off and the are shiny, or your keepers are bright and shiney, then that's another sign of valve float.

Hope this helps,
Charlie

c.evans wrote:I suspect it's a 2.350" intake valve in those EX 514 heads. I believe the Ferrea is one of the heavier stainless steel valves out there on the market and that one should weigh 164- 168 gms. Weigh it and see. I'm not sure about the 7000 series, I knew they had a 6000 series and it is the cheaper series, but I'll have to check on the 7000 series.

1. A titanium valve will increase the life of your valve springs as compared to stainless steel valves with all other factors being equal.
2. 220 lbs. on the seat is a little light for that big of a valve imo. You could probably shim the valve springs and do okay.

A Ti valve will be about 1/3rd less weight.

220 on the seat .... I wonder what is it over the nose and what springs ?

G

bosshoss wrote:When do you guys start thinking about titanium valves? Is it an rpm thing, valve lift, spring pressure?

New gearing combo has me crossing the finish at 7200 with my 572. ex514 heads with ferea 7000 series stainless valves and a lem spec comp cam ~.780 lift with 220lbs seat pressure.

dkp

You're there ... intakes at least.

I wouldn't run 220# on the seat with a A head 2.350 valve. @ 7200 rpm. Unless it is a very soft street roller.

It's time as Randy said.

i run 280# with a 2.300 ss valve. the big valve is the issue.

cool40 wrote:i run 280# with a 2.300 ss valve. the big valve is the issue.

Just to make it clear, the actual valve head size diameter dimension is not the real issue, the weight of the valve IS the issue however, the bigger and longer the valve ... the more it weighs, LOL.

rmcomprandy wrote:

cool40 wrote:i run 280# with a 2.300 ss valve. the big valve is the issue.

Just to make it clear, the actual valve head size diameter dimension is not the real issue, the weight of the valve IS the issue however, the bigger and longer the valve ... the more it weighs, LOL.

and the bigger headed valves weigh more than a small headed valve the same length.

Excuse my ignorance of TI as used in the internal combustion engine, but did Mr. Morgan mention when engine speed nears and/or exceeds 7000 RPM TI should be considered within the valve train ?

Just scratching my head .....
Dave.

Yes, he did. Let me just add, that the "mindset" of David Reher (Mr. Morgan's boss) at Reher-Morrison is that he favors titanium valves very early on in most of his engine builds. He has stated so, in the tech columns that he's written in the National Dragster.

Charlie

Thanks for the insights guys. Guess there is a budget item coming for me. For the record, 2.35 Intake valves K-Motion 1000H springs Ti retainers, cant remember the exact spec on the cam but roughly .760 lift and 284 duration @.050.

dkp

In addition to the valve mass and trap speed RPM you may well see as much or more RPM at 1-2 shift, I do. On a 2.30" SS intake valve A460 head with Jessel shaft rockers I saw no signs of float or distress at 7000-7200 with 230# seat pressure using a Comp RX lobe, ,790" net lift. On the more recent build and talking it through with Lem we went with a 2.40" TI intake valve, same seat pressure on a Comp RX Drag Race lobe, .820" net lift. Everything looks good so far, 35 combined dyno pulls, 20 passes, maybe 1500 street miles. 588" made 1007HP at the crank. 7500 shift, trap RPM and I've seen 8200 on the datalog with a late shift and 7800 rev limiter. I don't make a habit of that but it does like to rev, A460 tunnel ram, two 2200 cfm TB's.

Given the RPM another option is a hollow stem SS valve. Is about 1/2 between weight of reg. SS and Ti, and of course more expensive than reg. SS, but less than Ti. For something like what you are doing can be a good option.

When using a Ti intake, I'm of the opinion that the DLC coating should be used. Given the much improved valve job life I see it as an investment not an expense.

Question, can the DLC or other "durabilty" coatings be added to an existing valve face if in good shape?

J.Toney wrote:Question, can the DLC or other "durabilty" coatings be added to an existing valve face if in good shape?

I'd ask these guys...

http://www.calicocoatings.com/

In the case of valve face (seat surface) the chrome nitride is something that can be applied again and again after use, basically upkeep. According to them, it's around $45 to micro polish and apply the coating.

The DLC coating is something they'll only apply to a new,unused valve. ~$43 ea.

J.Toney wrote:In the case of valve face (seat surface) the chrome nitride is something that can be applied again and again after use, basically upkeep. According to them, it's around $45 to micro polish and apply the coating.

The  DLC coating is something they'll only apply to a new,unused valve. ~$43 ea.

Thanks for the info!

Lem Evans wrote:

J.Toney wrote:In the case of valve face (seat surface) the chrome nitride is something that can be applied again and again after use, basically upkeep. According to them, it's around $45 to micro polish and apply the coating.

The  DLC coating is something they'll only apply to a new,unused valve. ~$43 ea.

 Thanks for the info!

Likewise! All I needed to to be told to use common sense and call somebody.

I saw an intake valve w/dlc coating from a BBC that had 188 drag race passes on it and there was no visual evidence that it had ever touched the seat....those coatings are bad to the bone.