Titanium Valves
+8
LivermoreDave
cool40
IDT-572
rmcomprandy
c.evans
dfree383
G-Code
bosshoss
12 posters
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Titanium Valves
When do you guys start thinking about titanium valves? Is it an rpm thing, valve lift, spring pressure?
New gearing combo has me crossing the finish at 7200 with my 572. ex514 heads with ferea 7000 series stainless valves and a lem spec comp cam ~.780 lift with 220lbs seat pressure.
dkp
New gearing combo has me crossing the finish at 7200 with my 572. ex514 heads with ferea 7000 series stainless valves and a lem spec comp cam ~.780 lift with 220lbs seat pressure.
dkp
bosshoss- BBF CONTRIBUTOR
- Posts : 499
Join date : 2009-08-10
Re: Titanium Valves
what size valve ?
it also depends on the lobe(shape) and valve springs.
What springs are your running ?
G
G-Code- Posts : 193
Join date : 2010-07-12
Re: Titanium Valves
IMO its more of a budget thing, If you can afford them its a good idea to get them, at least on the intakes.
We have had some debates on them in the past and some claim its actually cheaper in the long run to use them, the numbers seem pretty consistant in suggesting that they are correct in this. But but it comes back to the initial investment (Typicaly about $100+/- more per valve).
Also you get into some seat issues for where and cost of coating them vs copper seats...... again $$$$$.
SS works but Titanium is better and substantialy more expensive.
It never ends !!!!
We have had some debates on them in the past and some claim its actually cheaper in the long run to use them, the numbers seem pretty consistant in suggesting that they are correct in this. But but it comes back to the initial investment (Typicaly about $100+/- more per valve).
Also you get into some seat issues for where and cost of coating them vs copper seats...... again $$$$$.
SS works but Titanium is better and substantialy more expensive.
It never ends !!!!
dfree383- BBF CONTRIBUTOR
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Join date : 2009-07-09
Location : Home Wif Da Wife.....
Re: Titanium Valves
I suspect it's a 2.350" intake valve in those EX 514 heads. I believe the Ferrea is one of the heavier stainless steel valves out there on the market and that one should weigh 164- 168 gms. Weigh it and see. I'm not sure about the 7000 series, I knew they had a 6000 series and it is the cheaper series, but I'll have to check on the 7000 series.
1. A titanium valve will increase the life of your valve springs as compared to stainless steel valves with all other factors being equal.
2. 220 lbs. on the seat is a little light for that big of a valve imo. You could probably shim the valve springs and do okay.
3. You can look for signs of valve float. The tip of the valve will get a wagon wheel spoke design imprinted on it.
4. If you are floating the valves, we generally see the seat in the head become wider than we cut it.
5. If you hear a finish line miss, and it is not electrical or due to a lean carb, and you're sure that's it's not those other two items, then it may be your valves floating.
6. If you see any signs of the valve clipping each other on the margin, then it's a sign of possible valve float.
7. If the black oxide coating on your seat cups is worn off and the are shiny, or your keepers are bright and shiney, then that's another sign of valve float.
Hope this helps,
Charlie
1. A titanium valve will increase the life of your valve springs as compared to stainless steel valves with all other factors being equal.
2. 220 lbs. on the seat is a little light for that big of a valve imo. You could probably shim the valve springs and do okay.
3. You can look for signs of valve float. The tip of the valve will get a wagon wheel spoke design imprinted on it.
4. If you are floating the valves, we generally see the seat in the head become wider than we cut it.
5. If you hear a finish line miss, and it is not electrical or due to a lean carb, and you're sure that's it's not those other two items, then it may be your valves floating.
6. If you see any signs of the valve clipping each other on the margin, then it's a sign of possible valve float.
7. If the black oxide coating on your seat cups is worn off and the are shiny, or your keepers are bright and shiney, then that's another sign of valve float.
Hope this helps,
Charlie
c.evans- BBF VENDOR SPONSOR
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Join date : 2008-12-03
Re: Titanium Valves
c.evans wrote:I suspect it's a 2.350" intake valve in those EX 514 heads. I believe the Ferrea is one of the heavier stainless steel valves out there on the market and that one should weigh 164- 168 gms. Weigh it and see. I'm not sure about the 7000 series, I knew they had a 6000 series and it is the cheaper series, but I'll have to check on the 7000 series.
1. A titanium valve will increase the life of your valve springs as compared to stainless steel valves with all other factors being equal.
2. 220 lbs. on the seat is a little light for that big of a valve imo. You could probably shim the valve springs and do okay.
A Ti valve will be about 1/3rd less weight.
220 on the seat .... I wonder what is it over the nose and what springs ?
G
Last edited by G-Code on May 1st 2012, 11:04 am; edited 2 times in total
G-Code- Posts : 193
Join date : 2010-07-12
Re: Titanium Valves
bosshoss wrote:When do you guys start thinking about titanium valves? Is it an rpm thing, valve lift, spring pressure?
New gearing combo has me crossing the finish at 7200 with my 572. ex514 heads with ferea 7000 series stainless valves and a lem spec comp cam ~.780 lift with 220lbs seat pressure.
dkp
You're there ... intakes at least.
Re: Titanium Valves
I wouldn't run 220# on the seat with a A head 2.350 valve. @ 7200 rpm. Unless it is a very soft street roller.
It's time as Randy said.
It's time as Randy said.
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IDT-572- BBF CONTRIBUTOR
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Age : 63
Location : Shelbyville Tn.
Re: Titanium Valves
i run 280# with a 2.300 ss valve. the big valve is the issue.
cool40- BBF CONTRIBUTOR
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Age : 53
Location : on the 1/8 mile dyno
Re: Titanium Valves
cool40 wrote:i run 280# with a 2.300 ss valve. the big valve is the issue.
Just to make it clear, the actual valve head size diameter dimension is not the real issue, the weight of the valve IS the issue however, the bigger and longer the valve ... the more it weighs, LOL.
Re: Titanium Valves
and the bigger headed valves weigh more than a small headed valve the same length.rmcomprandy wrote:cool40 wrote:i run 280# with a 2.300 ss valve. the big valve is the issue.
Just to make it clear, the actual valve head size diameter dimension is not the real issue, the weight of the valve IS the issue however, the bigger and longer the valve ... the more it weighs, LOL.
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cool40- BBF CONTRIBUTOR
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Join date : 2009-08-31
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Location : on the 1/8 mile dyno
Re: Titanium Valves
Excuse my ignorance of TI as used in the internal combustion engine, but did Mr. Morgan mention when engine speed nears and/or exceeds 7000 RPM TI should be considered within the valve train ?
Just scratching my head .....
Dave.
Just scratching my head .....
Dave.
LivermoreDave- Posts : 972
Join date : 2009-09-27
Location : North of the Equator.
Re: Titanium Valves
Yes, he did. Let me just add, that the "mindset" of David Reher (Mr. Morgan's boss) at Reher-Morrison is that he favors titanium valves very early on in most of his engine builds. He has stated so, in the tech columns that he's written in the National Dragster.
Charlie
Charlie
c.evans- BBF VENDOR SPONSOR
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Join date : 2008-12-03
Re: Titanium Valves
Thanks for the insights guys. Guess there is a budget item coming for me. For the record, 2.35 Intake valves K-Motion 1000H springs Ti retainers, cant remember the exact spec on the cam but roughly .760 lift and 284 duration @.050.
dkp
dkp
bosshoss- BBF CONTRIBUTOR
- Posts : 499
Join date : 2009-08-10
Re: Titanium Valves
In addition to the valve mass and trap speed RPM you may well see as much or more RPM at 1-2 shift, I do. On a 2.30" SS intake valve A460 head with Jessel shaft rockers I saw no signs of float or distress at 7000-7200 with 230# seat pressure using a Comp RX lobe, ,790" net lift. On the more recent build and talking it through with Lem we went with a 2.40" TI intake valve, same seat pressure on a Comp RX Drag Race lobe, .820" net lift. Everything looks good so far, 35 combined dyno pulls, 20 passes, maybe 1500 street miles. 588" made 1007HP at the crank. 7500 shift, trap RPM and I've seen 8200 on the datalog with a late shift and 7800 rev limiter. I don't make a habit of that but it does like to rev, A460 tunnel ram, two 2200 cfm TB's.
CDMBill- Posts : 182
Join date : 2010-08-09
Re: Titanium Valves
Given the RPM another option is a hollow stem SS valve. Is about 1/2 between weight of reg. SS and Ti, and of course more expensive than reg. SS, but less than Ti. For something like what you are doing can be a good option.
466cj- Posts : 391
Join date : 2011-05-01
Location : San Antonio, TX.
Re: Titanium Valves
When using a Ti intake, I'm of the opinion that the DLC coating should be used. Given the much improved valve job life I see it as an investment not an expense.
Re: Titanium Valves
Question, can the DLC or other "durabilty" coatings be added to an existing valve face if in good shape?
J.Toney- Posts : 398
Join date : 2009-08-18
Location : Kent CIty, MI
Re: Titanium Valves
J.Toney wrote:Question, can the DLC or other "durabilty" coatings be added to an existing valve face if in good shape?
I'd ask these guys...
http://www.calicocoatings.com/
Re: Titanium Valves
In the case of valve face (seat surface) the chrome nitride is something that can be applied again and again after use, basically upkeep. According to them, it's around $45 to micro polish and apply the coating.
The DLC coating is something they'll only apply to a new,unused valve. ~$43 ea.
The DLC coating is something they'll only apply to a new,unused valve. ~$43 ea.
J.Toney- Posts : 398
Join date : 2009-08-18
Location : Kent CIty, MI
Re: Titanium Valves
J.Toney wrote:In the case of valve face (seat surface) the chrome nitride is something that can be applied again and again after use, basically upkeep. According to them, it's around $45 to micro polish and apply the coating.
The DLC coating is something they'll only apply to a new,unused valve. ~$43 ea.
![Cool](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_cool.gif)
Re: Titanium Valves
Likewise! All I needed to to be told to use common sense and call somebody.Lem Evans wrote:J.Toney wrote:In the case of valve face (seat surface) the chrome nitride is something that can be applied again and again after use, basically upkeep. According to them, it's around $45 to micro polish and apply the coating.
The DLC coating is something they'll only apply to a new,unused valve. ~$43 ea.
Thanks for the info!
J.Toney- Posts : 398
Join date : 2009-08-18
Location : Kent CIty, MI
Re: Titanium Valves
I saw an intake valve w/dlc coating from a BBC that had 188 drag race passes on it and there was no visual evidence that it had ever touched the seat....those coatings are bad to the bone. ![Exclamation](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_exclaim.gif)
![Exclamation](https://2img.net/i/fa/i/smiles/icon_exclaim.gif)
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» titanium valves
» Titanium Valves
» Titanium valves with hydraulic cam ?
» Titanium valves: 2.25 valves SOLD; 2.35 valves SOLD,2.40 valves SOLD
» titanium valves
» Titanium Valves
» Titanium valves with hydraulic cam ?
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