Ford 598 Pump Gas Street / Strip Motor

bigblok2000ranger wrote:Charlie their are several ways to go about getting the power you want, I am interested in seeing how your deal turns out as I am a big fan of pumpgas builds and guys building power with out of the box parts. It shows how great some of the products that are available for these engines are. I took alot of flack when I did my pumpgas 523 so you are gonna need a strong will. I made the power I wanted and then some with that build and it was fun, I decided to step up the game with the latest engine and decided to have an engine builder do it because I was out of my league, I have learned a great deal about making ~1000hp in the process.

I am just as eagred as you are to see how this turn out lol. I have been waiting for some time now. I am hoping to reach the 1000 hp mark with pump gas, I guess only time will tell it all. I will want to see how your motor turn out and I hope you the best as well on your build. Thank you for being by my side.

dirt_worker wrote:I in no way was offended...I just know firsthand how these guys have helped me(and many others) from spending a lot of money on parts that wouldn't fit or be correct for the application. I just recently finished up an Aheaded 557 on pumpgas... we got similiar results to the builds you mentioned.
check it out here...

https://www.429-460.com/t14610-dyno-results-a-headed-557-on-91-octane-pump-gas

I am glad to hear that because I was not trying to step anybody toes here, I just put up those two post for comparison.
Man that motor you have is off the chain its a monster! I like the article you wrote, man that is a lot of horsepower. I like to hear when people have made that type of horsepower with pump gas. I am wanting the same thing as you to be able to drive on the street an also take to the track to really let it hang out and let it breath like it should. I want to be able to keep up with these new model cars with all up to date technology running superchargers.

CHARLIEB wrote:

bruno wrote:was interested in this thread ....wth happen to your posts charlieb ?????

No I guess I offened some people because from what I put up as a post, really I did not mean to offend anyone at all.
I just thought I would post two motors that did well from two builders on the internet. That I found and somebody ask me about one where did I find it and then I posted another one. I am new here and I dont know what is the do's and dont's but I guess I learn pretty quick. lol I feel that everybody opinion means a lot to me I have seen a lot of people here have told me some good advise that I did not know and I would have done something different. Right Now I dont now if I want to go with a street motor or a drag race motor, The only reason I wanted a street motor is the fact here in my city we dont have a track and the nearest track is about two hours away. I did not to have a car that I would not be able to drive every weekend or for a short distance. but what I have put and still need to do is it worth making a street motor and just go all out. I did talk with Mr. Lem Evans today and he is going to give me a price on a short block, but I need to decide on which way I am going with this build soon. Thank you for your interest and I am open for ideas anytime.
Charlieb.

you will find lots of "strong" opinions on this board ...you have made the right choice in talking to Lem Evans , awesome pricing , great service and will put you together a phenominal engine package good luck and keep us posted

X2 on what Bruno said, there are lots of opinions around here. Pick a plan that fits your budget and needs and roll with it. I still will stick with my opinion that 1k hp is going to be a big handfull to drive. If it can be done, though Lem will let you know. There are very few people out there with as much A head knowlege as he has.

My engine is a 600 inch A head motor with a 4.603 bore x 4.5 stroke deal makes over 1000, but it is a high compression deal. The camshaft and heads and intake WILL make or break it. As far as being drivable, I wouldn't be very comfortable driving mine around, but as has been said its a relative deal. Good luck with your build.

It should be noted that w pump gas or not anything w this kinda power is goin to require plenty of routine maintenance and inspection. The larger the cam and the more miles will dictate how long your valvesprings will last.
Bottom line is it gonna be like driving a racecar on the street...therefore one must be prepared for the tradeoffs...

bruno wrote:

CHARLIEB wrote:

bruno wrote:was interested in this thread ....wth happen to your posts charlieb ?????

No I guess I offened some people because from what I put up as a post, really I did not mean to offend anyone at all.
I just thought I would post two motors that did well from two builders on the internet. That I found and somebody ask me about one where did I find it and then I posted another one. I am new here and I dont know what is the do's and dont's but I guess I learn pretty quick. lol I feel that everybody opinion means a lot to me I have seen a lot of people here have told me some good advise that I did not know and I would have done something different. Right Now I dont now if I want to go with a street motor or a drag race motor, The only reason I wanted a street motor is the fact here in my city we dont have a track and the nearest track is about two hours away. I did not to have a car that I would not be able to drive every weekend or for a short distance. but what I have put and still need to do is it worth making a street motor and just go all out. I did talk with Mr. Lem Evans today and he is going to give me a price on a short block, but I need to decide on which way I am going with this build soon. Thank you for your interest and I am open for ideas anytime.
Charlieb.

you will find lots of "strong" opinions on this board ...you have made the right choice in talking to Lem Evans , awesome pricing , great service and will put you together a phenominal engine package good luck and keep us posted

I would like to say Bruno, I am glad I did find this site and this is a wonderful place to be, its just like family how the people are here willing to take the time out and help you. I know that I am in good hands now with all the knowledge on this site and having Mr. Evans help me is wonderful thing. I sure will keep everybody posted as new things develop and as my goal is meet. I still have a long way to go with project but at least I will be one step closer to finish. Once the motor is done then I will concentrate on drive train and chassis. I figured starting with the motor and work my way around the motor will give me a soild car, I guess the major deal as I know it is for most people is the money, Well for me that it is! I do see here a lot of people having top notch motors and still having new ones built. I am not balling like that I am trying to stay a float lol. I am very pleased to have people to talk to about my car and get some great advise all at the same time is a beautiful thing.

dirt_worker wrote:It should be noted that w pump gas or not anything w this kinda power is goin to require plenty of routine maintenance and inspection. The larger the cam and the more miles will dictate how long your valvesprings will last.
Bottom line is it gonna be like driving a racecar on the street...therefore one must be prepared for the tradeoffs...

yes I do understand where you coming from on routine maintenance and I do know at some point the valve springs will have to be replaced. Yes that is some thing that I want is a racecar but for street, I guess it will be a pro street car that is what I am looking for its not it will be driven everyday or every weekend, but at times to take out and drive around town every once in a while and to the track. I am willing for the trade off.

Barney wrote:My engine is a 600 inch A head motor with a 4.603 bore x 4.5 stroke deal makes over 1000, but it is a high compression deal. The camshaft and heads and intake WILL make or break it. As far as being drivable, I wouldn't be very comfortable driving mine around, but as has been said its a relative deal. Good luck with your build.

Barney, what is the compression you are making on your race car and what brand name block do you have?
I see you doing those wheel stands awesome! I am trying to put all this together about driving it on the street but I am willing to trade off for power. Really said and done I am looking for a corvette killer mustang and then some. I cant afford these new high dollar cars, so I will beef up my old school and show them how is done fa show.

CHARLIEB wrote:

Barney wrote:My engine is a 600 inch A head motor with a 4.603 bore x 4.5 stroke deal makes over 1000, but it is a high compression deal. The camshaft and heads and intake WILL make or break it. As far as being drivable, I wouldn't be very comfortable driving mine around, but as has been said its a relative deal. Good luck with your build.

Barney, what is the compression you are making on your race car and what brand name block do you have?
I see you doing those wheel stands awesome! I am trying to put all this together about driving it on the street but I am willing to trade off for power. Really said and done I am looking for a corvette killer mustang and then some. I cant afford these new high dollar cars, so I will beef up my old school and show them how is done fa show.

Mine is ner 16/1. I have a Ford Racing A460 block. I've been working on not doing wheel stands as of late with chassis tuning and a switch to a powerglide. You can drive it on he treet, but as has been said valvetrain maintenance and other issues will have to be addressed for obvious reasons. He reality is if you want to do it, you can do it.

Barney wrote:

CHARLIEB wrote:

Barney wrote:My engine is a 600 inch A head motor with a 4.603 bore x 4.5 stroke deal makes over 1000, but it is a high compression deal. The camshaft and heads and intake WILL make or break it. As far as being drivable, I wouldn't be very comfortable driving mine around, but as has been said its a relative deal. Good luck with your build.

Barney, what is the compression you are making on your race car and what brand name block do you have?
I see you doing those wheel stands awesome! I am trying to put all this together about driving it on the street but I am willing to trade off for power. Really said and done I am looking for a corvette killer mustang and then some. I cant afford these new high dollar cars, so I will beef up my old school and show them how is done fa show.

Mine is ner 16/1. I have a Ford Racing A460 block. I've been working on not doing wheel stands as of late with chassis tuning and a switch to a powerglide. You can drive it on he treet, but as has been said valvetrain maintenance and other issues will have to be addressed for obvious reasons. He reality is if you want to do it, you can do it.

Thanks, Barney for the info. I will have to weigh in my options and take it from there.

I'd do a 4.600 a 4.500 stroke in a A460 Block

Set of TFS 2.300 A460 heads and change out the springs and parts for a (Cough Cough) Hydraulic Roller Valvetrain. A little mild porting and Blending.

The Hydraulic Roller cam would be small 240ish on the intake, 250ish on the exhaust, in the mid 600's for lift. probably on a 110. Id look for a peak in the 5700-6000 range.

10.5:1 compression with a 1/16 ring pack and a mid weith 3/16 oil ring.

Use a Reqular 1050 HP Dominator on Motorsport A460 intake, for Hood clearance and diveability.

C6 with a custom built 12" Converter, 3.08 or 3.23 gears with 25" - 26" tall street tires.

I would look for driveability not peak power. Problem with big heads, monster cams and the such is low down power and drivability. They look real cool on paper untill your cruising @ 2000 rpm and the thing us bucking, Coughing and loading up.

I would also not worry about the HP #'s because its going to make way more than your going to hook-up on any street surface on street tires.

I agree,you will never be able to tell the difference between 800 hp or 1000 on the street.Especially w/stick shift. jmo.
Think this thing through imo.

With a street/strip type camshaft, a 598 engine such as that would probably make under 850 horsepower but, probably be up near the same amount of torque.

dirt_worker wrote:here's the deal....
the guys here have been down about every bbf road there has ever been. Theyre not here to steer you wrong (most of them anyways). forget what the magazines and your buddies are telling you and listen to the advice the guys here provide and I guarantee you won't be dissapointed. your combination will work better and most likely be built for cheaper than had you not asked and listened to the knowledge thats available.

I feel you on that point and that is why I am here is to listen and learn and see what good advise is shared with me.
Believe me I am grateful!

dfree383 wrote:I'd do a 4.600 a 4.500 stroke in a A460 Block

Set of TFS 2.300 A460 heads and change out the springs and parts for a (Cough Cough) Hydraulic Roller Valvetrain. A little mild porting and Blending.

The Hydraulic Roller cam would be small 240ish on the intake, 250ish on the exhaust, in the mid 600's for lift. probably on a 110. Id look for a peak in the 5700-6000 range.

10.5:1 compression with a 1/16 ring pack and a mid weith 3/16 oil ring.

Use a Reqular 1050 HP Dominator on Motorsport A460 intake, for Hood clearance and diveability.

C6 with a custom built 12" Converter, 3.08 or 3.23 gears with 25" - 26" tall street tires.

I would look for driveability not peak power. Problem with big heads, monster cams and the such is low down power and drivability. They look real cool on paper untill your cruising @ 2000 rpm and the thing us bucking, Coughing and loading up.

I would also not worry about the HP #'s because its going to make way more than your going to hook-up on any street surface on street tires.

I do understand what you are saying and you make plenty of sense I dont wont a car that will be buck going down the street, If that is going to be the case I could have bought a real hose and some chaps. lol, I know I am from Texas but I dont wont to be getting buck while driving my Mustang, The car that is. I do thank you for bringing it to light and I have been some serious thinking about this problem I will be facing.

First X300 on talking with Lem, Charlie and the other other experts here. they have helped me immeasurably. I have a street car with a 588" (4.560x4.5 in what was called an IDT Premier block) that made 1007 on pump gas. It's also in a big heavy pig of a 71 Mustang convertable and while everyone debates what is and isn't a street car, it was built to do Hot Rod Drag Week, NMCA True Street and to be able to drive around town or go to events like Car Craft's Anti-tour. I have a Lentech AOD in it with a 5700 stall converter, 3.89 gears and usually drive on the 325/50/15 drag radials although I have other various sizes of tires and wheels. The car weighs 4100 with me in it and runs mid nines in the 140's through the mufflers. You're Fox will be way quicker given the weight savings. It never hooks on the street, but isn't bad to drive at all as long as you aren't stupid with the throttle.

The engine formula isn't much different than wat you've laid out, but I'd suggest the Lem/TFS CNC program on the 2.40 intake valve version 3 of the TFS A-460 head and get the manifold ported to match. Charlie Evans does that work. I am running EFI with the TFS tunnel ram and two 2200 cfm throttle bodies so I can't comment on the carbed aspects. Drivability with the EFI is great. Compression is 11.86:1 using JE pistons with lateral gas ports a JE Hell Fire rings with a Napier second ring and a Peterson vacuum pump.

To make the power you wnat you need some RPM and to keep the valve train in one peice with street driving I think you'll be safer with a shaft rocker set-up. I have 1.8:1 Jessel stuff but there are other good, maybe better choices. I went with TI intake valves and seeing as how the engine has touched 8000 rpm a few times at the top of 1st gear I'm glad I did.

At about 900 HP on the last version of this engine, the Scat forged crank developed radial cracks on two of the rod journals so upgrade number 2 I'd suggest is the 4.5" stroke Boss 429 style forging you can get from Sonny Bryant. With that you'll want the special balancer made by Innovators West that fits the short snout on those cranks.

The cam is more about lobe profile than just duration and lift. Mine is a comp solid roller, 279/286 on a 113 with a net of .810 at the valve. The lobe series are RX Drag Race and Rev exhuast IIRC. Lem knows. We snuck up on this grind over time looking for good valve train and roller lifter life which can be a challenge. After being together for a year, so far so good. I'm running the Isky Red Zone EZ Roll stage 2 lifters in the .904 size with bushed lifter bores. Valve srpings, roller lifters and even rockers become consumables at this power level and RPM.

Displacement is your friend and I'd give serious consideration to the hydraulic cammed torque motor idea listed above. I also have a T56 viper spec set-up for the car and an earlier, much milder 572" version played hell with the snchros and some other parts when I really pushed the car hard. I'm using a McLeod twin disk clutch for that stuff which as held up well.

You mght want to start with a less agreesive cam to get the ball rolling and sort the chassis and other associated systems like charging and cooling beacsue as someone else said that kind of power and torque and heat will show up all the weaknesses in the car if you really drive it.

CDMBill wrote:First X300 on talking with Lem, Charlie and the other other experst here. they have helped me immeasurably. I have a street car with a 588" (4.560x4.5 in what was called an IDT Premier block) that made 1007 on pump gas. It's aslo a big heavy pig of a 71 Mustang convertable and while everyone debates what is and isan't a street car, it was built to do Hot Rod Drag Week, NMCA True Street and to be able to drive around town or go to events like Car Craft's Anti-tour. I have a Lentech AOD in it with a 5700 stall converter, 3.89 gears and usually drive on the 325/50/15 drag radilals although I have other various sizes of tires and wheels. The car weighs 4100 with me in it and runs mid nines in the 140's through the mufflers. You're Fox will be way quicker given the weight savings. It never hooks on the street, but isn't bad to drive at all as long as you aren't stupid with the throttle.

The engine formula isn't much different than wat you've laid out, but I'd suggest the Lem/TFS CNC program on the 2.40 intake valve version 3 of the TFS A-460 head and get the manifold ported to match. Charlie Evans does that work. I am running EFI with the TFS tunnel ram and two 2200 cfm throttle bodies so I can't comment on the carbed aspects. Drivability with the EFI is great. Compression is 11.86:1 using JE pistons with lateral gas ports a JE Hell Fire rings with a Napier second ring and a Peterson vacuum pump.

To make the power you wnat you need some RPM and to keep the valve train in one peice with street driving I think you'll be safer with a shaft rocker set-up. I have 1.8:1 Jessel stuff but there are other good, maybe better choices. I went with TI intake valves and seeing as how the engine has touched 8000 rpm a few times at the top of 1st gear I'm glad I did.

At about 900 HP on the last version of this engine, the Scat forged crank developed radilal cracks on two of the rod journals so upgrade number 2 I'd suggest is the 4.5" stroke Boss 429 style casting you can get from Sonny Bryant. With that you'll want the special balancer made by Innovatros West that fits the short snout on those cranks.

The cam is more about lobe profile than just duration and lift. Mine is a comp solid roller, 279/286 on a 113 with a net of .810 at the valve. The lobe series are RX Drag Race and Rev exhuast IIRC. Lem knows. We snuck up on this grind over time looking for good valve train and roller lifetr life which can be a challenge. After being together for year, so far so good. I'm running the Isky Red Zone EZ Roll stage 2 lifters in the .904 size with bushed lifter bores. Valves srpings, roller lifters and even rockers become consumables at this power level and RPM.

Displacement is your friend and I's give serious consideration to the hydraulic cammed torque motro idea listed above. I also have a T56 viper spec set-up for the car and an earlier, much milder 572" version played hell with the snchros and some other parts when I really pushed the car hard. I'm using a McLeod twin disk clutch for that stuff which as held up well.

You mght want to start with a less agreesive cam to get the ball rolling and sort the chassis and other associated systems like charging and cooling beacsue as someone else said that kind of power and torque and heat will show up all the weaknesses in the car if you really drive it.

That's a great post.^^^

Bill, thanks for the kind words but, while Charlie and I are way past pleased to have been involved in your project over the years, I'll give credit where credit is due. You and your westcoast supporting cast have done an amazing job An example of that would be when you called about the cam and told me what you guys were thinking and I told you "your fishing in the right pond...go for it"...I'm semi-amazed at your results

We all need to remind ourselfs that this is a classic case of "Rome was not built in a day". A lot of thought, work and dollars went into these results.

Thanks for sharing

CDMBill wrote:First X300 on talking with Lem, Charlie and the other other experst here. they have helped me immeasurably. I have a street car with a 588" (4.560x4.5 in what was called an IDT Premier block) that made 1007 on pump gas. It's aslo a big heavy pig of a 71 Mustang convertable and while everyone debates what is and isan't a street car, it was built to do Hot Rod Drag Week, NMCA True Street and to be able to drive around town or go to events like Car Craft's Anti-tour. I have a Lentech AOD in it with a 5700 stall converter, 3.89 gears and usually drive on the 325/50/15 drag radilals although I have other various sizes of tires and wheels. The car weighs 4100 with me in it and runs mid nines in the 140's through the mufflers. You're Fox will be way quicker given the weight savings. It never hooks on the street, but isn't bad to drive at all as long as you aren't stupid with the throttle.

The engine formula isn't much different than wat you've laid out, but I'd suggest the Lem/TFS CNC program on the 2.40 intake valve version 3 of the TFS A-460 head and get the manifold ported to match. Charlie Evans does that work. I am running EFI with the TFS tunnel ram and two 2200 cfm throttle bodies so I can't comment on the carbed aspects. Drivability with the EFI is great. Compression is 11.86:1 using JE pistons with lateral gas ports a JE Hell Fire rings with a Napier second ring and a Peterson vacuum pump.

To make the power you wnat you need some RPM and to keep the valve train in one peice with street driving I think you'll be safer with a shaft rocker set-up. I have 1.8:1 Jessel stuff but there are other good, maybe better choices. I went with TI intake valves and seeing as how the engine has touched 8000 rpm a few times at the top of 1st gear I'm glad I did.

At about 900 HP on the last version of this engine, the Scat forged crank developed radilal cracks on two of the rod journals so upgrade number 2 I'd suggest is the 4.5" stroke Boss 429 style casting you can get from Sonny Bryant. With that you'll want the special balancer made by Innovatros West that fits the short snout on those cranks.

The cam is more about lobe profile than just duration and lift. Mine is a comp solid roller, 279/286 on a 113 with a net of .810 at the valve. The lobe series are RX Drag Race and Rev exhuast IIRC. Lem knows. We snuck up on this grind over time looking for good valve train and roller lifetr life which can be a challenge. After being together for year, so far so good. I'm running the Isky Red Zone EZ Roll stage 2 lifters in the .904 size with bushed lifter bores. Valves srpings, roller lifters and even rockers become consumables at this power level and RPM.

Displacement is your friend and I's give serious consideration to the hydraulic cammed torque motro idea listed above. I also have a T56 viper spec set-up for the car and an earlier, much milder 572" version played hell with the snchros and some other parts when I really pushed the car hard. I'm using a McLeod twin disk clutch for that stuff which as held up well.

You mght want to start with a less agreesive cam to get the ball rolling and sort the chassis and other associated systems like charging and cooling beacsue as someone else said that kind of power and torque and heat will show up all the weaknesses in the car if you really drive it.

Very good post I like it very much so.
Thank You for the post

Mike R SCJ or others O/T hooking up a stick Car
November 29 2005 at 1:07 AM
Bill Fowler (Login CDMBill)
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I know several here on the Forum have big heavy cars like mine that hook well running a stick. Mine doesn't and I'm looking for advice on set up from the flywheel back. What combinations do you have including tire, traction device shocks etc.?
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Here is a 7 year old blast from the past.......the old net 54 Chilly site.

You are welsome, always happy to share. A couple notes: I mis-typed on the crank, its a forging not a casting. The Sonny Bryant piece is a bit of Ford history in that SVO had a big run of those forgings made years ago anf then when they kind of abandoned the 385 motors, Bryant bought the whole rail car load of them IIRC. They still have some on the shelf machined to their ultra high quality standards.

I also probably underplayed the EFI aspect as the street manners and drivability just wouldn't be the same without it. I realize its not likely where you'd want to go, but running that size cam on a 604 with a carb and a stick will be really funky at anything below 2500 under load. If you decide you want to go EFI I can give you the specs to a well proven set up and point you to some guys who can help you with the tune. Look at my post in the Boost and EFI section under cam sensors for pictures.

Good luck with your project.

Lem Evans wrote:Mike R SCJ or others O/T hooking up a stick Car
November 29 2005 at 1:07 AM
Bill Fowler (Login CDMBill)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I know several here on the Forum have big heavy cars like mine that hook well running a stick. Mine doesn't and I'm looking for advice on set up from the flywheel back. What combinations do you have including tire, traction device shocks etc.?
=======================================================================

Here is a 7 year old blast from the past.......the old net 54 Chilly site.

Thanks Lem, I'm still trying to make the pig fly. Maybe some day I'll learn and build a light weight car. In the mean time thank you for all the help over the years. I do need to meet you guys in person sometime. Drag Week is going through Memphis this year coming from Dallas. Maybe we can get close enough to have a beer or a glass 'o brown whisky.

Bill

Scott contacted me 12-21-11 off the "speedtalk" site..........he sent me this link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msBeVfZgP-Q&feature=youtu.be

Scott is a great friend, he was here Friday-Sunday last weekend and we upgraded to the MS3X Mega Squirt EFI box. Added a bunch of tuning aids and sensors. So we'll know what happened when it blows up.