351w questions

I had a windsor short block built for my daily driven 96 f150 and it spun a main bearing in 6400 miles. I thought he shop that assembled and balanced it would cover at least labor but he takes no blame in the problem. Here is what I have
357 .030 forged flat tops
File fit rings
Eagle H beam rods
Stock crank balanced 28oz
Clevite 77 bearings
Victor Jr heads
Comp xe274 hyd roller
Stock pan and Melling std volume pump

With a GT40 intake it made 309rwhp at only 4700rpm and had shift points set at 4900. Switched to a TFS R intake and it revved to 5500.

Shop tells me the bearings were 1/2 groove and he likes 3/4 groove. Tells me my pick up had shit in it (all bearing material). Tells me the stock pan is no good which is ridiculous in this relatively low rpm build. Tells me people have problems with oil temp running VR1 oil. No clue but I feel I've been hosed. Any ideas?

Out here in the old pueblo about 5 engines, different builders, assemblers, machine shops etc, all had bearing failures. Clevite rep came out and looked at many of them. Nothing was ever said or done. Only reason I checked into my engine is because for no apparent reason it lost 10lbs of oil pressure. Bearing material had flaked off the shell in almost 1/8" pieces.


Have used King bearings ever since....

But all that said.

Only reason to spin a main, it oil starved. Reason there is bearing material in system, oil starvation.

Too little oil pump, 3" mains do like a decent oil film and cooling volume. Obviously the 460 (385 series) engines also run the 3" mains, and there are lots of us spinning a whole lot more RPM than 5500. Bearing clearance, not the typical chevy build, if a builder is an "expert" on chevies, he's going to F up a ford.

The 351W is like a premier/A460/Dart etc 385 series engine. Dedicated lifter galley oil feed and dedicated main oil feed. Its easy to control oil flow to the top of the engine, and force feed mains and rods lots of oil.

The oil grove in the main bearing, 1/2 3/4 or full... determines how long and much oil feed the rod bearing is going to get. I prefer the 3/4 grove bearing as well. It allows more oil feed out to the rod bearing yet doesn't sacrifice the load bearing film in the base of the saddle to feed the rod bearing. I also prefer a smaller rod bearing diameter to eliminate some of the shear and friction issues at the rod bearing. The Chevy 2.10 bearing allows for a wide variety of rods, as well as a great selection of bearings to use. Still use a decent bearing clearance there also....

Now you didn't say which main bearing spun... each journal will also lend itself to other things... but there are bent cranks that can load and grab a journal as well. Lots of maybes until everything is checked over carefully.

There are a few tricks to making 3" mains live well at high RPM....

It was the 3rd bearing from the front idk which cylinder that makes it. I don't feel like a sbf spinng 5500 is high at all. I spin my 466 to 6300 everytime it leaves the driveway. Stock pan on that too. Again this is a daily driver and went to the track 3 times in the 6 months the motor was in the truck. Only went a best of 13.32 102 with the stock torque converter.

#3 main bearing, it spun the thrust bearing? Then torque converter and trans comes into question, stock converters like to balloon and shove the crank forward. Causes the crank to load the thrust surface and viola... might not have been an engine thing at all......

I'm an idiot I meant rod bearing   It spun the 3rd rod back from the front of the motor.

So it spun #2 rod bearing. Kinda common on the engines for rod bearings............ big bearing area, and then the builders desire for a 3/4 grove makes more sense.


As I said, I prefer the 2.10" chevy bearing diameter.

With rods, its usually an issue with too much clearance, and the thing slung the oil out, starving bearing, causing heat, friction, and spun...........

So it was a machining issue and he should eat at very least the labor. I feel I'd be better off with a stock bottom end like my buddy's truck. His has even together for 4 plus years and it was used when he bought it.

Ship all the pieces to me. We can fix the problem, assemble, test and ship you the engine ready to install.

Dave.

The VR1 is good oil for a race car or hotrod but, it does not have the additive package for extended drain interval like a 'street' oil.

LivermoreDave wrote:Ship all the pieces to me. We can fix the problem, assemble, test and ship you the engine ready to install.

Dave.

The short block is done but I feel he charged me full price for a motor that he built with low miles and only 6 months run time. Next time I'm using someone else for sure. I've never heard any complaints about this shop either.

Lem what oil would you run in this set up with a 3000 mile oil change interval? Also how often would you change the oil with the VR1 in a street strip application? That is what I run in my 466 as well.

1,500 miles may be more like it with the VR1 but it's a guess. The comp cams muscle car oil part #1595 may be a better fit for 3,000 miles.

On my solid flat tappet 466 I went 2000-2500 miles between oil changes, bracket raced every other weekend April-November and daily drove for 2years, seasonal after that for 5years. 50,000 miles and close to 2000 passes, bearings were checked before I sold it and looked like brand new.

Valvoline VR-1 20w-50 racing oil used year round for seven years.

Lem Evans wrote:The VR1 is good oil for a race car or hotrod but, it does not have the additive package for extended drain interval like a 'street' oil.

I run VR1 and my oil was getting up to 260F at the filter, of course, my oil pressure also dropped at this point. Could my problem be that the oil can't handle the long street driving? Only happens after a long drive.

bb429power wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The VR1 is good oil for a race car or hotrod but, it does not have the additive package for extended drain interval like a 'street' oil.

I run VR1 and my oil was getting up to 260F at the filter, of course, my oil pressure also dropped at this point. Could my problem be that the oil can't handle the long street driving? Only happens after a long drive.

How far is 'long'?

Lem Evans wrote:

bb429power wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:The VR1 is good oil for a race car or hotrod but, it does not have the additive package for extended drain interval like a 'street' oil.

I run VR1 and my oil was getting up to 260F at the filter, of course, my oil pressure also dropped at this point. Could my problem be that the oil can't handle the long street driving? Only happens after a long drive.

How far is 'long'?

Haven't really timed it but I know it has happened after about 30 minutes on the highway at 3,000rpm's.

Sorry if I'm high jacking the thread!

260* is a lot...more volume in the system or an oil cooler i.m.o.

Lem Evans wrote:260* is a lot...more volume in the system or an oil cooler i.m.o.

I agree, that sounded way too high for me. I added a good sized oil cooler and I haven't had a temp gun to check it but the pressure still drops like its getting hot.

I drive my truck that far quite often. Are you using a gauge or just a temp gun?

droppedf100 wrote:I drive my truck that far quite often. Are you using a gauge or just a temp gun?

I used a temp gun. Sending unit is electronic and in the back of the block behind the manifold and it goes down to about nothing. I set up a mechanical one up front on the drivers side and the pressure was normal. About 20-30 if I remember. I'm pulling the engine over winter and maybe changing the oil pump out with another I have and switching to rear sump.

Your extremely low oil pressure has another cause. The oil TEMPERATURE is not your biggest problem; especially at ONLY 260f.
A lot of oval track and road race engines run around there a lot of the time however, most do use synthetic oil.

rmcomprandy wrote:Your extremely low oil pressure has another cause.  The oil TEMPERATURE is not your biggest problem; especially at ONLY 260f.
A lot of oval track and road race engines run around there a lot of the time however, most do use synthetic oil.

I am leaning towards rod bolts not being torqued tight enough, but time will tell when I pull the engine. Thanks for the input guys, sorry if I high jacked your thread.

I ran Valvoline VR-1 20w-50 in my 351W/AOD powered 81 mustang yr round(well not much driving in the winter). It was a 12.00 car and seen 6000 rpm everytime I drove it. I wont run anything else in a flat tappet cam engine. Hundreds of passes and 1000's of miles on that engine(street and highway). Never took it apart for 9 yrs. and that was to change cams. Did that with engine in the car. Sold it after 10 yrs and the oil always looked good.


Edit: In no way am I disputing what Lem Evans said....he's forgot more then I know...Im just a tinkerer.




Tim

bb429power wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:Your extremely low oil pressure has another cause.  The oil TEMPERATURE is not your biggest problem; especially at ONLY 260f.
A lot of oval track and road race engines run around there a lot of the time however, most do use synthetic oil.

I am leaning towards rod bolts not being torqued tight enough, but time will tell when I pull the engine.  Thanks for the input guys, sorry if I high jacked your thread.

Might want to check all your rods, for round, and proper dimensions too. Check the side clearance, on the one that spun, and look for blue hot spot on the side. Lots of causes possiable. Good luck.