Re: Tunnel Rams for the Street??

kim September 8th 2014, 6:09 pm

dfree383 wrote:
kim wrote:Twin dominators on a tunnel ram. Just an upgrade to the 4 webbers. A tuneable venturi for each cylinder. The dominators just reduce the linkage headache.

Useless on big inch engines..... Can't get big enough carbs.

You don't need multiple carbs to make big power.

Webbers definitely agree. Maxed out at a decent 351cu in. That's where the 1200 to 1600 cfm twins come in. Don't need multiple carbs especially if the engine is injected.

XF-66 September 9th 2014, 1:53 pm

A single four is at best a compromise for a Tunnel Ram. Sure intake manifold technology has come a long way from days of yester-years!

So if you put a 90 degree bend in a exhaust system it's a restriction correct? In fuel systems a 90 degree turn creates fuel aeration/turbulence, true?

But if we put a 90 degree turn in a intake it's wonderful.....? If you need to run a hood I guess. The only way I've seen 90's work in a intake system was when the intake charge was pressurized. This even was a compromise at best.

I feel that if you are serious about power a Tunnel Ram is the most efficient way of meeting one's horsepower goals. A single four is a compromise at best......

What's that old saying...? "if you don't remember your history, you are doomed to repeat it."

Here's a quick revision of history.....

"Tunnel-ram intake manifolds made their first known dragstrip appearance on the legendary Ram Chargers "High and Mighty" '49 Plymouth in 1959. A group of hobbyists consisting largely of Chrysler engineers, the Ram Chargers created a new style of manifold by mounting a pair of Carter AFB carburetors over a common plenum and runners made from industrial-grade rubber hose. Thus the first tunnel-ram was born, attached to a 354-inch Hemi. Popular in the '60s and '70s with car crafters, the tunnel-ram enjoyed quite a following until the advent of modern, technologically advanced single four-barrel intakes that offered easier packaging and the simplicity of tuning one carburetor. In racing classes with no limitations on carburetion, tunnel-rams live on in high-tech sheetmetal and carbon-fiber form. In the ultimate expression of normally aspirated performance, NHRA Pro Stockers are exclusively equipped with tunnel-ram-style induction. But, like most performance components, tunnel-rams are combination specific; we don't recommend slapping one on a 300-inch 8:1 compression engine.

According to Air Flow Research's Tony Mamo, a tunnel-ram-equipped engine should flow more air than one with a conventional single four-barrel intake manifold because it fools the motor into thinking it has better heads--even if the heads are very good. If, on a flowbench, a single four-barrel intake manifold is substituted for a radius plate (normally being attached to the port being tested), it is not uncommon to see significant decreases in flow because of the turn in the runner inherent to a single-plane design.

Notice in the article below what was discovered about the tunnel ram and it's torque curve.
Read more: http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/0304_intake_manifolds_contrast/#ixzz3CqBP6Laz

Dark Horse of Apocalypse September 9th 2014, 1:58 pm

Wow the pro-single 4 and the TR crowd both present complying arguments.

IDT-572 September 9th 2014, 2:08 pm

The Weiand tunnel for a oem style head will make more torque than a Victor and make it 800-1000 rpm lower in the power curve.

This intake has a reverse taper and optimum runner length suited to the short stroke big port 429 SCJ to help in torque production.

It will match the Victor for peak power. With a single carb of the correct size, I could see the Wieand actually having better manners in a street application. I'm talking roller cam good compression moderate hp deal.

Maybe better even in a hydraulic cam application.

Dark Horse of Apocalypse September 9th 2014, 2:12 pm

IDT-572 wrote:The Weiand tunnel for a oem style head will make more torque than a Victor and make it 800-1000 rpm lower in the power curve.

This intake has a reverse taper and optimum runner length suited to the short stroke big port 429 SCJ to help in torque production.

It will match the Victor for peak power. With a single carb of the correct size, I could see the Wieand actually having better manners in a street application. I'm talking roller cam good compression moderate hp deal.

Maybe better even in a hydraulic cam application.

Is a 4.125-4.15 inch crank too long to benefit from this ram tuning?

IDT-572 September 9th 2014, 2:13 pm

gmsmkr September 9th 2014, 2:41 pm

A old man once told me if it worked in the 60s it will work today but will it be cost effective he asked. Suspect

busta September 13th 2014, 3:17 am

I should weigh in here, but will start off by saying I'm no expect.

I run a Weiand tunnel ram on a 532ci bbf, 100% street driven car. I run 2 950 cfm carbs which sounds like a lot, however the engine runs perfect and idles right on 1000 rpm. I use a solid roller cam, 12:1 compression and cast iron heads. I've read comments about lag and loss of signal because of 2 huge carburetors, but it's just not true. If there is lag or a loss of response, I'm not feeling it.

I use shitty D3 heads. They have been ported to flow enough air for 650hp. The engine was dyno'd and made 650hp/675 ft lb torque. I would think that if I switched to a Victor 460 intake, the power would drop off. I think a tunnel ram will always make more hp NA over a single plain intake. I think the reason is that one carb looks after 4 runners. It seems more efficient to me.

Finally, I have loved my tunnel ram and the look that goes with it, however here in Australia, the law looks very unfavourably upon them. Thursday night I took my car out and ran into an RBT ( Random Breath Test ) station, and the cops went mental over the car, in particular the engine protrusion. So I will be removing my tunnel ram, and have to go back to a single or dual plane intake. Sad

Tunnel Rams for the Street?? - Page 2 Black-XB-Engine-2

bbf-falcon September 13th 2014, 7:17 am

busta wrote:I should weigh in here, but will start off by saying I'm no expect.

I run a Weiand tunnel ram on a 532ci bbf, 100% street driven car. I run 2 950 cfm carbs which sounds like a lot, however the engine runs perfect and idles right on 1000 rpm. I use a solid roller cam, 12:1 compression and cast iron heads. I've read comments about lag and loss of signal because of 2 huge carburetors, but it's just not true. If there is lag or a loss of response, I'm not feeling it.

I use shitty D3 heads. They have been ported to flow enough air for 650hp. The engine was dyno'd and made 650hp/675 ft lb torque. I would think that if I switched to a Victor 460 intake, the power would drop off. I think a tunnel ram will always make more hp NA over a single plain intake. I think the reason is that one carb looks after 4 runners. It seems more efficient to me.

Finally, I have loved my tunnel ram and the look that goes with it, however here in Australia, the law looks very unfavourably upon them. Thursday night I took my car out and ran into an RBT ( Random Breath Test ) station, and the cops went mental over the car, in particular the engine protrusion. So I will be removing my tunnel ram, and have to go back to a single or dual plane intake.

I hate it when that crap happens. Did u ask him if he were there to check your breath or inspect your car?

busta September 13th 2014, 8:18 am

LOL!

OK here's the story.

I am going through a divorce. I've had major dramas with the local cops because of my ex-wife and her "behavior". Anyway, the car is freakin loud so I haven't taken it out in about 7 months. Thursday night I decided it was time to blow some carbon off the pistons.

I live on a major main road in my town. The cops like to setup RBT close to my place. I went out, checked the road left and right, couldn't see any cops. Went out the back, started the car, warmed it up for 10 minutes or so, making sure everything was sweet. As I come out from behind the building where the car is parked, I go to pull out onto the road and there was an RBT setup. I could not go anywhere. Couldn't exactly turn around so I was doomed. They went pretty easy on me, told me to take it home and don't bring it out until I fix a bunch of things on the car. I got off a lot lighter than I expected, but the fact that the engine hangs through the bonnet is a big NO-NO here in Australia. With a scoop and a smaller intake, I should be able to get away with leaving the rest of the car how it is.

Dave C. September 13th 2014, 10:05 am

I'd move.

Dark Horse of Apocalypse September 13th 2014, 10:10 am

Wow sorry to hear that. Won't a hood scoop get you outta trouble?

DanE September 13th 2014, 2:44 pm

busta wrote:LOL!

OK here's the story.

I am going through a divorce. I've had major dramas with the local cops because of my ex-wife and her "behavior". Anyway, the car is freakin loud so I haven't taken it out in about 7 months. Thursday night I decided it was time to blow some carbon off the pistons.

I live on a major main road in my town. The cops like to setup RBT close to my place. I went out, checked the road left and right, couldn't see any cops. Went out the back, started the car, warmed it up for 10 minutes or so, making sure everything was sweet. As I come out from behind the building where the car is parked, I go to pull out onto the road and there was an RBT setup. I could not go anywhere. Couldn't exactly turn around so I was doomed. They went pretty easy on me, told me to take it home and don't bring it out until I fix a bunch of things on the car. I got off a lot lighter than I expected, but the fact that the engine hangs through the bonnet is a big NO-NO here in Australia. With a scoop and a smaller intake, I should be able to get away with leaving the rest of the car how it is.

My engine is on the engine stand and on it is a dual quad, dual plane intake manifold manufactured by Blue Thunder. It, along with my C9 heads were ported by the "Mad Porter". The intake flowed 260 CFM before porting with divergent runner flow,however, after porting it flowed 315 CFM with fairly even runner flow. Those flow numbers were generated at .600" lift.
My point here is that this manifold would allow you to use your existing carbs, ect. and possibly stay under a bonnet or at least with a short bonnet protrusion/scoop.
I don't know how the two manifolds would compare in engine performance characteristics.

DanE September 13th 2014, 3:31 pm

If one were to extend the plane of the Blue Thunder intake manifold that the carbs bolt to over the front and rear china walls of the block, that plane would be 4.625" (11.75 CM) over the front china wall and 6" (15.24 CM) over the rear china wall.

busta September 14th 2014, 9:20 am

DanE wrote:
busta wrote:LOL!

OK here's the story.

I am going through a divorce. I've had major dramas with the local cops because of my ex-wife and her "behavior". Anyway, the car is freakin loud so I haven't taken it out in about 7 months. Thursday night I decided it was time to blow some carbon off the pistons.

I live on a major main road in my town. The cops like to setup RBT close to my place. I went out, checked the road left and right, couldn't see any cops. Went out the back, started the car, warmed it up for 10 minutes or so, making sure everything was sweet. As I come out from behind the building where the car is parked, I go to pull out onto the road and there was an RBT setup. I could not go anywhere. Couldn't exactly turn around so I was doomed. They went pretty easy on me, told me to take it home and don't bring it out until I fix a bunch of things on the car. I got off a lot lighter than I expected, but the fact that the engine hangs through the bonnet is a big NO-NO here in Australia. With a scoop and a smaller intake, I should be able to get away with leaving the rest of the car how it is.

My engine is on the engine stand and on it is a dual quad, dual plane intake manifold manufactured by Blue Thunder. It, along with my C9 heads were ported by the "Mad Porter". The intake flowed 260 CFM before porting with divergent runner flow,however, after porting it flowed 315 CFM with fairly even runner flow. Those flow numbers were generated at .600" lift.
My point here is that this manifold would allow you to use your existing carbs, ect. and possibly stay under a bonnet or at least with a short bonnet protrusion/scoop.
I don't know how the two manifolds would compare in engine performance characteristics.

Hey mate,

I've been in contact with DSC Motorsport who have this exact intake. I'm going to get myself one. That way, like you say, I can retain the carbs, linkage setup and fuel fittings/reg, and have the smaller intake. I will put a Boss 429 scoop on it. Will look fkn tuff once the hood is popped.

Can you please post some pics of your engine? Very Happy

busta September 14th 2014, 9:21 am

Dave C. wrote:I'd move.

Where to? Australia sux when it comes to modified cars. We have awesome cars, but our rules are bullshit.

busta September 14th 2014, 9:24 am

Dark Horse of Apocalypse wrote:Wow sorry to hear that. Won't a hood scoop get you outta trouble?

Nah putting a scoop on would not pass the regulations either. Forward facing scoops and/or vision impairments must not be taller than 50mm I believe. I haven't read the rules in years.

Dark Horse of Apocalypse September 14th 2014, 9:27 am

busta wrote:
Dark Horse of Apocalypse wrote:Wow sorry to hear that. Won't a hood scoop get you outta trouble?

Nah putting a scoop on would not pass the regulations either. Forward facing scoops and/or vision impairments must not be taller than 50mm I believe. I haven't read the rules in years.

Your right those rules do suck.

blown473 September 17th 2014, 8:28 pm

I've run BBF Weiand tunnel rams both on the street, and in my old jet boat. Used Edelbrock 750's both times, and it ran great in either environment. Car Craft magazine did a tunnel ram vs single & dual plane manifold contest about 5 years ago, and even to their amazement the tunnel ram made more torque down low than the other 2 types.. It's about your entire combo, not just the manifold. My jet boat only had a 575 lift hyd cam in it, and it pulled with such power I could pull 4 skiers up with no problems. NHRA Pro Stocks are all tunnel ram deals, the fastest n/a cars at 500 cid out there.

the Coug September 18th 2014, 8:28 am

Busta are those Bigs Carbs? if so Jesse is a pretty sharp cookie on carbs..... and a hell of a nice guy to boot...

busta September 22nd 2014, 3:10 am

the Coug wrote:Busta are those Bigs Carbs? if so Jesse is a pretty sharp cookie on carbs..... and a hell of a nice guy to boot...

Yeah they are man. The seem to run pretty good on the street.

6t6mustang September 26th 2014, 5:39 pm

interested in your combo, building a new boat jet combo over the winter and targeting 650 hp, prolly do a 4.420 or 4.440 bore 3.85" stroke, 11:1, tunnel ram, two 750 edel's, either ported d3's or scj's if funds allow. lookin at a solid flat with 258/268 on a 110 with .650", thing seems to like more duration tho..

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Tunnel Rams for the Street??