Building engines with other people's parts...

I don't build engines, but I have put built several car. I don't do it for a living so I'm able to be selective. Most people don't understand the time it takes to build things, not just put it together. My favorite line is....... shouldn't take you too long!!! And they can't even change plugs.

In my industry, I can tell if a contractor wants the job based on his estimate for repairs/construction.

Today, it's still a free market. Charge whatever, pay whatever or do without (except for healthcare).

the Coug wrote:

bruno wrote:in my industry its called "C.O.G." customers own garbage....... we charge them double for labor

and Who are you? do we know you?

good afternoon Randy. Im just the maid.

Our biggest problem in my shop is people bring stuff in that there buddy had in his combo and say well his car run 12's or 10s or what ever I then ask them if they have the same heads,intake,pistons and so on then they look at me and say they have the same intake and cam and carb.

I can't help my self but snicker inside be cause they think that's all there is to going fast

Double post

the Coug wrote:

bruno wrote:in my industry its called "C.O.G." customers own garbage....... we charge them double for labor

and Who are you? do we know you?

X2, hit the newbee page beatch.

just a couple of thoughts,, in the construction business,, we just put in the estimate,, this does not include any unforseen items  ,, in your case ,, fitting mismatched customer supplied parts,, checking customer supplied parts,, etc ,,.  just my opinion ,, whatever or just tell them no , you don't have time ,, or just charge them more from the start

I like working on a " cost plus" budget.

Then there is the 5X ... I have been to 5-other shops and this is want I want what is your pricing ...It appears to me that you have already done all of your research, and I can assure you that you have attained competitive pricing with the shops you have mentioned, and based on price I cannot compete with a few of the aforementioned, but I am sure you will make the right decision with the pricing you have already attained thanks for coming, it was a pleasure to meet you.

I don't say to much on here but my engine was made out of a combo of new and used parts. It is a all alum.: A head 605 ci eng. it took me a long time to gather and get the stuff to put it together. While I haven't made a lot of use of it but that is another story. When I had most of my pieces I contacted a couple of engine builders one locally and one who shall go un named as I'm not bashing any one. They did not wish to mess with it because of used stuff. Then I contacted keith and Ted at engine systems. They said sure bring it in and we will look at it. They built me a great piece. We used some of my stuff, threw some away, bought some new stuff. They bought some of my stuff we didn't use. Keith made some custom pieces. It easily made over 1000 hp on non abusive dyno pulls. I paid them cash for their work and parts. They treated me like a king, ran it dyno with me there lunch ect. I'm sure they made some money or I hope they did. They made a friend and customer for life out of me. I'm a family man,have a wife three kids one of which is in college. It not not that often I can drop a chunk of change on a engine. They made me feel as important as the next guy. With some used parts and the help of Ted and keith at engine systems I have a bullet I am very proud of. I'm just saying you can't lump every one into one group. I send them buissness every time I can. That phone call from some one with parts might be money.

dr's wife racing wrote:I don't say to much on here but my engine was made out of a combo of new and used parts. It is a all alum.: A head 605 ci eng. it took me a long time to gather and get the stuff to put it together. While I haven't made a lot of use of it but that is another story. When I had most of my pieces I contacted a couple of engine builders one locally and one who shall go un named as I'm not bashing any one.  They did not wish to mess with it because of used stuff. Then I contacted keith and Ted at engine systems. They said sure bring it in and we will look at it. They built me a great piece. We used some of my stuff, threw some away, bought some new stuff. They bought some of my stuff we didn't use. Keith made some custom pieces. It easily made over 1000 hp on non abusive dyno pulls. I paid them cash for their work and parts. They treated me like a king, ran it dyno with me there lunch ect. I'm sure they made some money or I hope they did.  They made a friend and customer for life out of me.           I'm a family man,have a wife three kids one of which is in college. It not not that often I can drop a chunk of change on a engine. They made me feel as important as the next guy.                               With  some used parts and the help of Ted and Keith at engine systems I have a bullet I am very proud of.  I'm just saying you can't lump every one into one group. I send them business every time I can. That phone call from some one with parts might be money.

EXACTLY ...You seem exactly like some of my really good customers who have some of their own parts.  Ones who can understand all this and realize the pitfalls which might happen and don't assume that you are automatically going to get gouged.
It does tell me that THEY would probably be gougers if put in the same position.
People who feel that way ... can take their stuff and go somewhere else.  I'm simply not gonna argue about the pricing. Those who understand about "time & material" and are after some personal, quality attention, are not afraid to pay a LITTLE extra for getting a good final product.

There are a lot of professional engine builders who I have had discussions with, who have had the same experiences but, are hessitant to say anything, (especially on a forum), because they might offend someone and drive away some business.
Some of these people NEED to get offended; in my opinion.

rmcomprandy wrote:

dr's wife racing wrote:I don't say to much on here but my engine was made out of a combo of new and used parts. It is a all alum.: A head 605 ci eng. it took me a long time to gather and get the stuff to put it together. While I haven't made a lot of use of it but that is another story. When I had most of my pieces I contacted a couple of engine builders one locally and one who shall go un named as I'm not bashing any one.  They did not wish to mess with it because of used stuff. Then I contacted keith and Ted at engine systems. They said sure bring it in and we will look at it. They built me a great piece. We used some of my stuff, threw some away, bought some new stuff. They bought some of my stuff we didn't use. Keith made some custom pieces. It easily made over 1000 hp on non abusive dyno pulls. I paid them cash for their work and parts. They treated me like a king, ran it dyno with me there lunch ect. I'm sure they made some money or I hope they did.  They made a friend and customer for life out of me.           I'm a family man,have a wife three kids one of which is in college. It not not that often I can drop a chunk of change on a engine. They made me feel as important as the next guy.                               With  some used parts and the help of Ted and Keith at engine systems I have a bullet I am very proud of.  I'm just saying you can't lump every one into one group. I send them business every time I can. That phone call from some one with parts might be money.

EXACTLY ...You seem exactly like some of my really good customers who have some of their own parts.  Ones who can understand all this and realize the pitfalls which might happen and don't assume that you are automatically going to get gouged.
It does tell me that THEY would probably be gougers if put in the same position.
People who feel that way ... can take their stuff and go somewhere else.  I'm simply not gonna argue about the pricing. Those who understand about "time & material" and are after some personal, quality attention, are not afraid to pay a LITTLE extra for getting a good final product.

There are a lot of professional engine builders who I have had discussions with, who have had the same experiences but, are hessitant to say anything, (especially on a forum), because they might offend someone and drive away some business.
Some of these people NEED to get offended; in my opinion.

This happened just TODAY.

I am building a Cleveland stroker, (I should say was building), using some customer parts, and the rod bearing clearance with the crank, rods & bearings he brought had almost .0004" clearance.  I called him and said I needed to buy different, new bearings to make things right.
He had a lot of misgivings, loud misgivings, over the phone yelling that it was all checked by who he bought the kit from and it didn't need new bearings, just put it together.
I politely, (at first), told him I would figure out his invoice and he could come and pick it up in its present condition, any time he wanted because I will NOT continue putting it together. He then had a bigger fit, threatening lawyers and all kinds of stuff so, now I then told him he had a week to come and get it out of here.  
I will put it all in a wooden crate wrapped in plastic tomorrow until he brings a certified check to pay the present invoice. He then consented to new bearings but, TO LATE. I will NOT finish this ... and get it outta here.

I don't want or need these headache customers.

I have no problems with those who charge less than I do for the simple fact they know what there work is worth.

This is a great statement that I was told as a kid and have always trusted that the person or persons giving the time to talk and understand the build and process of using miss match parts will work and do good just needs more care and time with them would understand this.

I was't calling anyone out.I understand about those kind of people. He would be the same if he had all new parts.They put a new crank and rods in mine and it still had to have machine work to be right. The block also had to have some work work. I brought home a new set of bearings that was too tight.Would  have rather brought them home than them be in the engine.That is why I wanted a prof. engine builder.This was the first time I had ever used a builder for a turn key job.I'm 49 yrs old and raced since I was 15. It was kind of a big thing for me.  I do not have the tools or knowledge to carry it to the next level.  I guess I was a little put out that I had put a lot of time research and money int what I felt was a good build and felt snubbed because I had some used parts. I look at it like any engine is only new once. When I take it back in to be freshened I know what I hope we see, what is expected.But you never know untill you tear it down. It will have to all be gone over and checked for specs , fix it from there. What a lot of people choose not to understand is that 90% of time and labor are spent on the last 10% of the build. Ie. tolerances  ect. That is also what makes the difference in if it lives or dies. Devil is in the details.
Think we have most of my problems resolved and I hope I am able to get some good pass's down this yr.

dr's wife racing wrote:I was't calling anyone out.I understand about those kind of people. He would be the same if he had all new parts.They put a new crank and rods in mine and it still had to have machine work to be right. The block also had to have some work work. I brought home a new set of bearings that was too tight.Would  have rather brought them home than them be in the engine.That is why I wanted a prof. engine builder.This was the first time I had ever used a builder for a turn key job.I'm 49 yrs old and raced since I was 15. It was kind of a big thing for me.  I do not have the tools or knowledge to carry it to the next level.  I guess I was a little put out that I had put a lot of time research and money int what I felt was a good build and felt snubbed because I had some used parts. I look at it like any engine is only new once. When I take it back in to be freshened I know what I hope we see, what is expected.But you never know untill you tear it down. It will have to all be gone over and checked for specs , fix it from there. What a lot of people choose not to understand is that 90% of time and labor are spent on the last 10% of the build. Ie. tolerances  ect. That is also what makes the difference in if it lives or dies. Devil is in the details.
Think we have most of my problems resolved and I hope I am able to get some good pass's down this yr.

My point was, I do fully understand your original post and really wish there were more people out there who shared your insight into these type situations.