E85 1000hp + spray

A friend who is very experienced in building high hp turbo combinations in different applications but less so in this stuff, asked me for advice for what to base his bbf e85 (Non-turbo) build on. He thinks a460 block, 4.3 stroke, tunnel ram, everything else open. Giving advice for this is way above my experience level.
He currently runs pump gas dove block, tfs conventional style 4.3 stroker making making 770ish N/A and 1050 with big shot spray.

The amount of spray he is thinking is about 500, but the system would go to 800.

So, asking for inputs from the experienced here.

This is the car. street/strip GTA, full original interior w. 8sec cage, four link, mustang II front suspension and glass hood, fenders and trunk lid, C6. In the nines currently.

Sweet looking ride!!
Not sure I would want a tunnel ram poking through the hood, but that is me.

One can certainly build a killer nitrous powerplant and keep it under the hood.
Depends on the budget and goals. A better short block foundation always a good idea.
Cylinder heads - depend on goals.

Cheers

I've heard a few people say e85 doesnt like nitrous. Can someone go into that who has experience with it.

Agree on the tunnel ram and the looks. Would be very happy with what it is already myself, but it’s not mine and his approach has always been to push the limits.
I do appreciate this will be involved to do right and keep it alive. Therefore asking for direction. It’s not a dreamer case, he will go for it. I won’t be able to advise, but would appreciate directions to accomplish it.

Calypso wrote:A friend who is very experienced in building high hp turbo combinations in different applications but less so in this stuff, asked me for advice for what to base his bbf e85 (Non-turbo) build on. He thinks a460 block, 4.3 stroke, tunnel ram, everything else open. Giving advice for this is way above my experience level.
He currently runs pump gas dove block, tfs conventional style 4.3 stroker making making 770ish N/A and 1050 with big shot spray.

The amount of spray he is thinking is about 500, but the system would go to 800.

So, asking for inputs from the experienced here.

How about A460 block (or Eliminator block) and a 4.75 stroke crank for 632 cubic inches!!....a set of either C460 heads, or Thor Gen II heads, as much compression as he can make (because the 18 bolt head/block setup has more clamping/sealing force than a BB Chevy!!), and E85, and adjust the NOS setup for the full 800 shot!!

What is the hp goal overall?

Will be 4.6 bore and one of the longer strokes. Possibly c-heads. He’ll talk to Kaase to get this going.

stanger68 wrote:What is the hp goal overall?

As stated in the subject, baseline 1k N/A plus 500 spray (with potential to 800). It’s hard to find info about big nitrous E85 combos to find out what is realistic to make work and where the diminishing returns are going to be, what compression etc.

litshoot wrote:I've heard a few people say e85 doesnt like nitrous.  Can someone go into that who has experience with it.  

If you're running E85, you have to check consistently how close it is to "E85". If you're buying it at the pump, it could be as low as E70 which would require you to tune differently. I think your statement should have read "Nitrous users don't like E85".

Curt

Thank you, I had heard people against it, but they never specified why so wondered what was the complaint. its a matter of consistency.

litshoot wrote:Curt

Thank you, I had heard people against it, but they never specified why so wondered what was the complaint. its a matter of consistency.  

Yes, consistency st the pump is an issue. its not hard to mix your own, though. Get a drum of E98 and a tester. Depending on % at the pump I wind up spending $2.50-2.80/gallon on my “race fuel”. And I’ve been amazed how consistent my car has run at the track since switching from VP 113. This last weekend the car ran 10.01-10.02 in all 6 runs before a redlight ended our night

We don’tt practically ever hear about fuel quality related issues being in a small country with one high quality source for fuel to all stations. Surely worthwhile to check though before using the nitrous.

We don’t practically ever hear about fuel quality related issues being in a small country with one high quality source for fuel to all stations. Surely worthwhile to check though before using the nitrous.

I've been using E85 for over 8 years and only saw a lower percentage once in the spring when they transition from E70 (winter blend in Michigan) to E85 in the summer. I hear of the ones that talk about bad ratios but they never experienced it only hear about it from someone that heard it from someone else. Now that's good intel.
When you think about ratios that are lower the octane equivalent drops but the engine runs fatter and has some compensation. Every time I measure in the summer its within 1%. I dont measure it in the summer anymore.

A good day at the track is only $20 for E85 fuel but if you want to run race gas its $100. So whats to decide?

It looks like the combo will be:
Callies 4.5 stroke crank
Oliver rods
SR71:s with matching pistons, cam and valvetrain
Sheet metal tunnel ram
Fuel injection

dfree383 wrote:I’d be shy with an 800 hit of Mr frosty and George Strait E85.

IMO race gas is the ticket, detonation kills expensive things quickly

Agreed! E85 is about 108 octane, straight ethanol is about 113. For an 800 shot you be dealing with the devil.

Methanol is about 120 but you would have to pack a lot of it in there which would raise the compression ratio again.

Agree, 800 is a lot. The intent is to go 500, with system that is capable for more. Any experience of what has been done successfully would be appreciated.

rmcomprandy wrote:I would recommend to build a 528 Boss-9 hemi for it ... 4.500" bore x 4.150" stroke.

I’ve taken your advice before and it was spot on. How would this roughly compare budget wise? We originally thought that boss9 would have potential and entirely different cool factor in this type of car, but would probably be unrealistic pricewise.

He committed to the combo from Kaase yesterday to get everything going for the next summer. We are overseas and have to be early to figure in all the delays. And commitment is a commitment.

We will post the results here.

However I don’t believe for a second this is the last engine of this type he will build. Actually he’s currently reassembling a blown e85 598 for his -74 f250 after finding a pinhole leak in ex port from porting. He ran 9.8”s in street duramax Silverado already 10 years ago, so I have a hunch that there is more to come now that he’s become a Ford convert.

Calypso wrote:Agree, 800 is a lot. The intent is to go 500, with system that is capable for more. Any experience of what has been done successfully would be appreciated.

Contact Mark Sullens. He builds E85 carbs for a living. One of his customers runs a big block ford w/ a couple kits of spray on e85. According to him and others, E85 loves nitrous. Maybe you will find this link useful

https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1369385

TTrotter wrote:

Calypso wrote:Agree, 800 is a lot. The intent is to go 500, with system that is capable for more. Any experience of what has been done successfully would be appreciated.

Contact Mark Sullens. He builds E85 carbs for a living. One of his customers runs a big block ford w/ a couple kits of spray on e85. According to him and others, E85 loves nitrous. Maybe you will find this link useful

https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1369385

Thank you for the info. Interesting discussion there at YB. Some guys running leaner fuel jetting than race gas and not pulling timing...

Stuff from Kaase beginning to arrive. Heads still on the way and the intake undecided... Possibly the almost local, Swedish, IR efi: http://www.unikracing.com/valj-kategori/ford

Calypso wrote:

TTrotter wrote:

Calypso wrote:Agree, 800 is a lot. The intent is to go 500, with system that is capable for more. Any experience of what has been done successfully would be appreciated.

Contact Mark Sullens. He builds E85 carbs for a living. One of his customers runs a big block ford w/ a couple kits of spray on e85. According to him and others, E85 loves nitrous. Maybe you will find this link useful

https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1369385

Thank you for the info. Interesting discussion there at YB. Some guys running leaner fuel jetting than race gas and not pulling timing...

Stuff from Kaase beginning to arrive. Heads still on the way and the intake undecided... Possibly the almost local, Swedish, IR efi: http://www.unikracing.com/valj-kategori/ford

From what I have been finding, it (e85) seems to like the same timing as gasoline does. Perhaps more in some cases. If you go the efi route, still some good info out there on how to tune the system using either the gas stoich scale or lambda. those IR's would be a sweet set up