429 for a jet boat

I'm thinking of buying a jet boat, basically just the hull from a buddy of mine.

I have a 429 that came out of a 73 mercury marquis that ran when I took it out and the odometer had 80k on it. What would it take to make this thing run good using the stock heads that are on it. If I remember right the number that is on the heads is D VE A2A, there a blank space between the D and V. Here's what I was thinking.

Stock bottom end
Trickflow R Intake and 750-850ish carb
OTS comp hyd roller cam
roller rockers
Stainless valves, upgrade springs, retainers keepers
Jet boat headers
New timing chain, balancer.

I'm new to BBF's, I'm a 5 liter mustang guy.

Is a 429 even worth building? Could these internals hold up to constant 4-5k+ rpms that a boat turns?
Would a 460 conversion be worth it? I'd like to keep it on a budget and if it blows up then build the bottom end.

IMO if its a budget build the 429 stuff will work fine, but if you have the $$$ a 460 or strokes is better.

I do a Hydraulic FT (And appropriate valve train pcs), Performer RPM or Stealth, 850 holley type carb, good Oil pan and parts. freshen up whats worn out and go with it.

I wouldn't spend the money on the HR stuff.

Would the money spent on roller cam and lifters not be worth the performance gains? Do you know if stock internals would hold up well to rpms?

Cost vs return a FT mechanical is a better bang for the dollar than a HR in a BBF. The weird pushrod angles tend to make HR lifter a little finiky in a BBf. IMO the money would be better invested towards better heads, stroker kit, Ect.

yes the stock internals are fine for 4500-5000 rpm as long as they are in good working order. forged pistons are always a good idea if the budget allows.

If you're on a budget a simple build will get the job done really well in a jet boat. Sure having a 460 or larger engine will be better but you have a good low mileage 429 which will work fine.

coreyflipp wrote:Would the money spent on roller cam and lifters not be worth the performance gains? Do you know if stock internals would hold up well to rpms?

Flat tappet cams do a good job in this application...great bang for the buck. I.m.o. any extra funds could be saved toward better cyl. heads and/or bigger engine.

If I may add, and my advice (if you call it that) especially if your boating plans include enjoyable days on the water, don't go "hoping up" the engine for routine pleasure boating! You are in the "ball park" when estimating the engine's operating range although it can be operated at a bit lower engine speed with satisfactory results.

These are areas I would spend the money.

1. A good rear sump pan with extra capacity. It doesn't need to be an expensive pan, just a good designed pan to control oil and add capacity. I'm not a fan of "box pans" just to increase capacity, the pan must make the oil behave!

2. If money is available, have a competent pump (jet pump) re-builder "tighten the pump". This will increase the pumps efficiency and lower the engine's speed.

I have had several years experience with boating as well as others on the www.429-460.com site, as soon as you start "souping up" your pleasure craft, the more you will be oaring or hooked to the wrong end of a rope, and that's if you find someone who's willing to tow you for miles back to the dock!

Dave.

A few years ago I did a 460 Ford build for a jet boat customer with a very nice old Sanger boat that he completely rebuilt. It was a simple build, flat top pistons, D3VE heads etc. He's run the boat a lot and he's had no problems at all. It's got a hydraulic cam that's 223 degrees at .050, stock oil pump, an Edelbrock Torker 2 intake and a 750 Holley vacuum secondary carburetor. He just has the log manifolds on the engine. It doesn't burn an incredible amount of fuel and it made about 375 horsepower at 5000rpm on my dyno. He and his wife and kids like to go out water skiing and tubing and it's perfect for that sort of stuff. The only thing he's had to do is change the oil.

Thanks guys for all the responses. Someone mentioned earlier about the pushrod angles making it "finicky" What is that referring to? I can spend some money on this engine, but I'm realisticly not going to be able to afford 2+ grand on heads and/or stroker stuff.

The 4-5 rpm range is just what the guy I'm buying it from told me, he said it takes about 3k rpms to plain out.

Can someone give me a little info on the heads, D VE-A2A. I've read before something about the compression being to high to run todays unleaded pump gas. Anything I would need to do to them like replace valve seats etc...

I put hard seats in the D3VE's that I did for the 460 along with changing to a different valve spring. I used the stock rockers and other hardware, valves too because all that stuff was good on the core engine. I believe that this 460 pulls about 5000rpm or maybe a little more in his jet boat and it can handle that without trouble. I don't think you'll need to spend a lot of money on the engine to have something that'll run well and be reliable in the boat. The compression ratio on a 429 with a D3VE head will be low enough that it'll probably run on 87 octane without trouble.

You could spend some time working on the heads, doing some porting which would help quite a bit and it would cost you nothing.

coreyflipp wrote:I'm thinking of buying a jet boat, basically just the hull from a buddy of mine.

I have a 429 that came out of a 73 mercury marquis that ran when I took it out and the odometer had 80k on it. What would it take to make this thing run good using the stock heads that are on it. If I remember right the number that is on the heads is D VE A2A, there a blank space between the D and V. Here's what I was thinking.

Stock bottom end
Trickflow R Intake and 750-850ish carb
OTS comp hyd roller cam
roller rockers
Stainless valves, upgrade springs, retainers keepers
Jet boat headers
New timing chain, balancer.

I'm new to BBF's, I'm a 5 liter mustang guy.

Is a 429 even worth building? Could these internals hold up to constant 4-5k+ rpms that a boat turns?
Would a 460 conversion be worth it? I'd like to keep it on a budget and if it blows up then build the bottom end.

We've built countless 460 jet boat engnies.

Properly set up (and the keyword is "properly"), the OEM stamped steel rockers ought to work just fine up to about 0.550" lift hydraulic flat tappet camshafts. If you intend to use a cam with greater lift, then you might want to consider a rocker arm upgrade.

If you must go with a roller cam, then for christ's sake quit trying to get the "best of both worlds" with a hydraulic roller and accept the necessary maintenance that comes with roller camshafts. Go solid and get used to adjusting your valves. Frankly, if this is going to be a little ol' 460 then a roller anything is going to be way more cam than necessary for the typical 460 jet boat running at 5000 rpm. Besides, a roller cam is a true $1000 valve train upgrade and you said that you have a budget.

Given the sustained upper rpm operation (and resulting needed engine breathability) of the jet boat, go with the Holley 850....absolutely. (Too small for most roller cams, though.) The iron hueads will need to be ported, at the very least on the exhaust side....again because of the upper rpm usage. Zero porting will hold back the power of the engine substantially.

New balancer not mandatory, but a new timing chain most certainly is.

The particular 429 that you have (1973) is one of the least powerful with it's dished pistons, short stroke, retarded chain, etc. And with the 429, you are limited to forged pistons choices. Switch to a 460 crank (uses same rods as a 429) and your pistons choices are virtually endless. The 460 crankshaft is a very inexpensive 31 cubic inch gain. With a 460 crank and flat tops tops, for example, you will have about 9.6:1 compression ratio (depending on particulars) which, incidentally, is a good move since your 1973 429 has less than 7.5:1 compression ratio which does nothing for upper rpm usage. (Flat top pistons in your 429 will bump compression ratio to about 8.4:1).

The OEM crankshafts are absolutely up to the job; the rods ought to be fine to 500hp adn can sustain more power if hand-selected from a big group of rods and then fully inspected and prepared for performance use.

Paul

Also, I don't know where you are located but we have a freshly built 429 sitting on a stand that is ready to go. Forged flat top pistons, mild hydraulic lifter cam, ported D0VE heads with stainless valves etc ,double roller chain, etc. Compresion ratio is about 10.5:1 but if you want less we can refit the shortblock with ported D3Ve heads instead.

We are in California; call if interested.

Paul

Paul Kane wrote:
Properly set up (and the keyword is "properly"), the OEM stamped steel rockers ought to work just fine up to about 0.550" lift hydraulic flat tappet camshafts. If you intend to use a cam with greater lift, then you might want to consider a rocker arm upgrade.

If you must go with a roller cam, then for christ's sake quit trying to get the "best of both worlds" with a hydraulic roller and accept the necessary maintenance that comes with roller camshafts. Go solid and get used to adjusting your valves. Frankly, if this is going to be a little ol' 460 then a roller anything is going to be way more cam than necessary for the typical 460 jet boat running at 5000 rpm. Besides, a roller cam is a true $1000 valve train upgrade and you said that you have a budget.

Given the sustained upper rpm operation (and resulting needed engine breathability) of the jet boat, go with the Holley 850....absolutely. (Too small for most roller cams, though.) The iron hueads will need to be ported, at the very least on the exhaust side....again because of the upper rpm usage. Zero porting will hold back the power of the engine substantially.

New balancer not mandatory, but a new timing chain most certainly is.

The particular 429 that you have (1973) is one of the least powerful with it's dished pistons, short stroke, retarded chain, etc. And with the 429, you are limited to forged pistons choices. Switch to a 460 crank (uses same rods as a 429) and your pistons choices are virtually endless. The 460 crankshaft is a very inexpensive 31 cubic inch gain. With a 460 crank and flat tops tops, for example, you will have about 9.6:1 compression ratio (depending on particulars) which, incidentally, is a good move since your 1973 429 has less than 7.5:1 compression ratio which does nothing for upper rpm usage. (Flat top pistons in your 429 will bump compression ratio to about 8.4:1).

The OEM crankshafts are absolutely up to the job; the rods ought to be fine to 500hp adn can sustain more power if hand-selected from a big group of rods and then fully inspected and prepared for performance use.

Paul

THANKYOU! This is what I wanted to hear. So, the 429 I have is a low compression terd basically. From what I read here's what I need..
460 crank
Flat top pistons
HF cam
stock rockers
Cleaned up heads
850 carb

What if I used the stock cam and some roller rockers? Referring to the mustang world, the stock 5.0 HO cams in the mustangs are actually a good cam for a mild build, just add 1.72 roller rockers.

And what 460 crank should I be looking for? There's usually some on craigslist. I'm not sticking this thing in it with 7.5 compression.

Stock 429/460 cams are pretty lame, best to get a flat tappet from some one with proper specs for the application

IMHO, crankwise you should look for a 2Y, 2Ya, 2YAB, 2YABC casting numbers. These are all "internal balance" cranks. Then, again, later "external balance" cranks would be OK...IF you keep the revs under 5500/6000...or so.

coreyflipp wrote:

Paul Kane wrote:
Properly set up (and the keyword is "properly"), the OEM stamped steel rockers ought to work just fine up to about 0.550" lift hydraulic flat tappet camshafts. If you intend to use a cam with greater lift, then you might want to consider a rocker arm upgrade.

If you must go with a roller cam, then for christ's sake quit trying to get the "best of both worlds" with a hydraulic roller and accept the necessary maintenance that comes with roller camshafts. Go solid and get used to adjusting your valves. Frankly, if this is going to be a little ol' 460 then a roller anything is going to be way more cam than necessary for the typical 460 jet boat running at 5000 rpm. Besides, a roller cam is a true $1000 valve train upgrade and you said that you have a budget.

Given the sustained upper rpm operation (and resulting needed engine breathability) of the jet boat, go with the Holley 850....absolutely. (Too small for most roller cams, though.) The iron hueads will need to be ported, at the very least on the exhaust side....again because of the upper rpm usage. Zero porting will hold back the power of the engine substantially.

New balancer not mandatory, but a new timing chain most certainly is.

The particular 429 that you have (1973) is one of the least powerful with it's dished pistons, short stroke, retarded chain, etc. And with the 429, you are limited to forged pistons choices. Switch to a 460 crank (uses same rods as a 429) and your pistons choices are virtually endless. The 460 crankshaft is a very inexpensive 31 cubic inch gain. With a 460 crank and flat tops tops, for example, you will have about 9.6:1 compression ratio (depending on particulars) which, incidentally, is a good move since your 1973 429 has less than 7.5:1 compression ratio which does nothing for upper rpm usage. (Flat top pistons in your 429 will bump compression ratio to about 8.4:1).

The OEM crankshafts are absolutely up to the job; the rods ought to be fine to 500hp adn can sustain more power if hand-selected from a big group of rods and then fully inspected and prepared for performance use.

Paul

THANKYOU! This is what I wanted to hear. So, the 429 I have is a low compression terd basically. From what I read here's what I need..
460 crank
Flat top pistons
HF cam
stock rockers
Cleaned up heads
850 carb

What if I used the stock cam and some roller rockers? Referring to the mustang world, the stock 5.0 HO cams in the mustangs are actually a good cam for a mild build, just add 1.72 roller rockers.

And what 460 crank should I be looking for? There's usually some on craigslist. I'm not sticking this thing in it with 7.5 compression.

FORGET almost everything you've read anywhere else about the big block Fords ... and NOTHING from building a small block will apply.
You are now on the right track but, include a "straight-up" timing set along with your parts.
The CompCams #34-232-4, (XM262H), will fit your application almost perfectly.

Stock production crankshaft from ANY 1977 or older 460 engine will work.

rmcomprandy wrote:

coreyflipp wrote:

Paul Kane wrote:
Properly set up (and the keyword is "properly"), the OEM stamped steel rockers ought to work just fine up to about 0.550" lift hydraulic flat tappet camshafts. If you intend to use a cam with greater lift, then you might want to consider a rocker arm upgrade.

If you must go with a roller cam, then for christ's sake quit trying to get the "best of both worlds" with a hydraulic roller and accept the necessary maintenance that comes with roller camshafts. Go solid and get used to adjusting your valves. Frankly, if this is going to be a little ol' 460 then a roller anything is going to be way more cam than necessary for the typical 460 jet boat running at 5000 rpm. Besides, a roller cam is a true $1000 valve train upgrade and you said that you have a budget.

Given the sustained upper rpm operation (and resulting needed engine breathability) of the jet boat, go with the Holley 850....absolutely. (Too small for most roller cams, though.) The iron hueads will need to be ported, at the very least on the exhaust side....again because of the upper rpm usage. Zero porting will hold back the power of the engine substantially.

New balancer not mandatory, but a new timing chain most certainly is.

The particular 429 that you have (1973) is one of the least powerful with it's dished pistons, short stroke, retarded chain, etc. And with the 429, you are limited to forged pistons choices. Switch to a 460 crank (uses same rods as a 429) and your pistons choices are virtually endless. The 460 crankshaft is a very inexpensive 31 cubic inch gain. With a 460 crank and flat tops tops, for example, you will have about 9.6:1 compression ratio (depending on particulars) which, incidentally, is a good move since your 1973 429 has less than 7.5:1 compression ratio which does nothing for upper rpm usage. (Flat top pistons in your 429 will bump compression ratio to about 8.4:1).

The OEM crankshafts are absolutely up to the job; the rods ought to be fine to 500hp adn can sustain more power if hand-selected from a big group of rods and then fully inspected and prepared for performance use.

Paul

THANKYOU! This is what I wanted to hear. So, the 429 I have is a low compression terd basically. From what I read here's what I need..
460 crank
Flat top pistons
HF cam
stock rockers
Cleaned up heads
850 carb

What if I used the stock cam and some roller rockers? Referring to the mustang world, the stock 5.0 HO cams in the mustangs are actually a good cam for a mild build, just add 1.72 roller rockers.

And what 460 crank should I be looking for? There's usually some on craigslist. I'm not sticking this thing in it with 7.5 compression.

FORGET almost everything you've read anywhere else about the big block Fords ... and NOTHING from building a small block will apply.
You are now on the right track but, include a "straight-up" timing set along with your parts.
The CompCams #34-232-4, (XM262H), will fit your application almost perfectly.

Stock production crankshaft from ANY 1977 or older 460 engine will work.

All of my jetboat BBF motors have ran the best with the cam installed with 4* advance in it, with it straight up it falls on its face pretty bad so get an adjustable timming set.