Dove vs. Dooer heads

From the info i've found on the site about these heads the dove heads flow up to ~350 int. and 220 ex. and the dooer head flow up to ~370 int. 210 ex. about how much power can the extra 20 cfm make? Are Dooer heads worth the high prices for only ~20 cfm intake gain?

IMO, it depends on your intentions for your build, and your budget. The D0OE-R heads are a better head if you're running an all out, class type pulling truck or mud truck. The D0VE's are a great starter head. Done right, they'll support HP in the ranges of 700+, where the D0OE-R's will support a bit more HP. When done properly. Plus I think you'll get a little more torque from the D0VE's because the port runners are not as large as the D0OE-R castings. They both also work very well for drag racing apps, but for not much difference in money, you can get into a good set of aluminum heads, and not have the extra weight of the iron castings.

Again, JMO.






Doug...

Like doug has said in an unlimited application, with big rpm, big cam, ect the SCJ's are the ticket. In a limited application, with smaller cams say under .600 lift, wanting better low end torque the DOVE's are a better choice.

The Smaller heads will actually outflow the SCJs at lower lifts and provide better velocity and depending on what you need them to do the can very well perform better in the right application.

So you need to look at the total package and what you want it to do before you select your heads.

Plus the DOOE-R heads have the capibility to flow a whole lot more than 370 with the proper work and typicaly decently ported DOVE's are generaly in the 330-340 range with 2.25 valves.

Dave you mean CJ's not SCJ's right or were they called SCJ's from the factory ?

Factory CJ and SCJ motors both carried the same DOOE-R Part Numbered Head castings. We are talking about Factory Iron Heads. CJ motor = Hyd Cam, SCJ Motor = Soild Cam

The CJ heads will flow a lot more air through the intake side than you have quoted here. Well above .600" valve lift though.
The comparison here seems to be a fully ported D0VE and a bowl ported D00E-R because those are about the numbers you'll get.

However, as Dave has said, mid lift numbers will favor the smaller D0VE head so, for cams under or around .600" net valve lift they are the better choice; especially if the intake port entrance is opened to Victor size.

NOW, the TFS 290 streets have about the D00E-R bowl with the D0VE runner with a much better exhaust port and is a very good street type compromise.

As far as the money part, the DOVE's done up to that range with the ability to get over .600 lift are gonna be about $1500-1750 unless you can find a used set. The DOOE-R's will be about $2500 or a little more. So is the extra worth the price? Depends on your application. I am running a vac limited mud drag class and I am holding my own with the rest of the crowd for the most part and I'm using DOVE heads. What are you looking to use the engine for?

It would be a truck pulling engine. The basic class rules are 480 max cubic inch, single 4150 carb, oem heads. would like to make 700 hp minimum to be competitive. I found the flow numbers in the "cylinder head info" sticky in the proven builds section. about how much more power can the cj heads make in this aplication?

In an unlimited engine ... a LOT.

When hampered by certain rules ... nothing at all.

Then there is everything in-between.

The rules of the organization should determine which head would be the best head for that particular application.

This is one of those deals where either one will get you there. The DOVE's will make 700+ HP if done right with a big solid roller cam. The DOOE's will cost a considerable amount more, but will make over 800HP when the rest of the motor is set up to handle it. .060 over with a 3.85" 460 crank is 472ci. The kicker will be the 4150 carb. Holley makes some big 4150HP carbs, I believe a 1050cfm version is available, and that is more than enough carb to get over 700 HP. So it's really up to you to decide whether or not you want to sink the extra $1k or more into a set of DOOE's. I would think you could be more than competitive with the DOVE's all the same.

what kind of RPM are you looking to turn it?

rmcomprandy wrote:In an unlimited engine ... a LOT.

When hampered by certain rules ... nothing at all.

Then there is everything in-between.

The rules of the organization should determine which head would be the best head for that particular application.

The only limitations I have are it must be a single 4150 style 4 barel carb, and 480 max ci. Will a 4150 carb flow enough air for the Dooe heads to make more hp than a dove?

dfree383 wrote:what kind of RPM are you looking to turn it?

I'm not shure how high it would need to be, this will be my first real performance build. I think it would have to be 7000-8000 rpms.

7000-8000 rpm is where the Cj's are going to shine.

And yes you can get 4150's up to about 1150 cfm, so it will be possible to feed it.

You may want to talk with Brett Powell he has a whole lot of experiance where your heading.

I think the question is if you already have the D0OE-R heads or not. Do you currently have the D0VE or the D0OE (CJs) ? If you have them, then the port work and new valves and such are the same price. If you have to go and find a set for around $800 then add that on top. If you are in a limited cubic inch, iron head class and want to be at the top you will need the CJ heads. If you don't have CJ's then do up a set of D0VE's and do the best you can. The CJ's will out perform the DOVE's up at the top RPM's 7000+ which is were you will need to be and gear it appropriately. Where are you located, there may be one of our member head porters nearby ?

FWIW Mark

I dont have any heads yet. I'm trying to figure out which heads to buy. I know dove heads are good enough because there is a guy running them that does pretty well and actually won a couple pulls last year. but it seems like these guys raise the bar a little every year, just a few years ago guys where winning with 400 small block chevys. It sounds like i should go with the CJ heads so I can keep up with the big block chevys, they will probably be pushing 800 hp soon if they aren't already.

I wouldn't expect any typical factory iron headed 480" BBC to be making quite that much.

If you want 800hp, ported factory iron heads will not be the best choice. You will spend more money trying to make them work than you would on a decent set of aluminum aftermarket heads.

Outlaw5.0 wrote:If you want 800hp, ported factory iron heads will not be the best choice. You will spend more money trying to make them work than you would on a decent set of aluminum aftermarket heads.

The class rules require an OEM iron head.

dfree383 wrote:I wouldn't expect any typical factory iron headed 480" BBC to be making quite that much.

yea I hope not, but they are damn tough to beat

If you're hoping for anywhere close to 800 hp, DOOR-e all the way....

mitch wrote:

Outlaw5.0 wrote:If you want 800hp, ported factory iron heads will not be the best choice. You will spend more money trying to make them work than you would on a decent set of aluminum aftermarket heads.

The class rules require an OEM iron head.

Got to love those spend more money iron head rules.

Anybody can buy a big time set of aftermarket heads and go fast, its the ones that take parts that everyone says can't do it and make them fly, they are the HeRo's IMO

dfree383 wrote:Anybody can buy a big time set of aftermarket heads and go fast, its the ones that take parts that everyone says can't do it and make them fly, they are the HeRo's IMO

I'm not one to brag, just stating what can be done with them. 3069 lb with me in the car 557 Dooe-r's ported ran 5.80 in my mustang last year at the NMRA race at Bowling green Ky. With my ported TFS Streets it ran 5.70 @ 2965 lb. That engine dyno' ed at 861 hp.

So the Dooe-r's are worth a good bit more than 800 hp, and mine were not a max effort deal. It only had 8 degress of split in the cam and lobe sep was to narrow for those heads. The exhaust only flowed 204 cfm.

I would like to build a big inch stroker optimise it for those heads, and see what the cast SCJ's can realy do.

Colin's 429 CJ engine, (actually 441"), is in the high 800's HP with those iron heads on his NHRA Super Stock engine with a 780 cfm carb so, it certainly CAN be done.