Back Together Again *(Update) TNT 7-2-10

dfree383 wrote:More info on the cam and the convertor. Was the convertor purchased for the small block?

Forgot to add Dave, I had another converter for the Cleveland all together. I saved this converter for two years waiting on a BBF so I could use it.

Kerry,My ole 466 in the Maverick had for the most part the same thing as yours but the cam.It had a 728 lift Comp roller w/108. I t really liked *36 .When it had the Alum.CJ's.C6 and 4.30 gears the fastest it went 6.24 at 2870# on gas, w/o me.I think when you get it straight it will run a 5.90. You will get ,just a little patience.

dfree383 wrote:I'm going to agree with fabio, work on the fuel and try a different ignition box if you can, plus check all the wiring and grounds for any voltage drop. Alky is a mother to fire.

Any chance of bolting on a gas dominator? And running some gas thru it and see what happens?

Dave,

The gas deal would be difficult. I removed everything gas related on the car when I switched. It's on a new 6AL MSD right now with a Pro Billet MSD distributor. I don't think I have fire problems. She starts easy and seems to fire well.

Kerry,Dave's comment on the ignition box (6AL) reminds me of a conversation I just had last week w/a friend that just switched over to (alcohol)Ron's terminator this year. He was having problems getting it running right.Other racers told him to switch to a better box. He bought a 7AL and he said it sounded like a different engine. I have one I will loan you if you want to try it.

I am not against more ignition but I can tell you from experience the only thing I saw switching to a 7a from a 6a box was a lighter wallet. Now that was on a carbed 466 (5.51 et) and probably a little different story. The 7a did clean up the very top end crispness just a bit.

I am sure the 7a would be better with injection because you will have the ability to burn more fuel. The best thing you can do is install a high speed leanout I don't care what Ron's says they are worth et and its just a matter of common since if you think about it . You are not just holding a sustained fuel pressure it is increasing and your engine's need for fuel is decreasing with higher rpms less time to burn the excess fuel.

The reason they say its not very important is the same reason this high gear theory got started , it takes a substantial amount of mph to over come a good 60' time , a fat carb or injector will leave harder and there is a big tuning window. You got to stay on top of your tune up all the way down the track it all works together.

Kerry how far are you from dyersburg I can help you tune on that thing sometime. We are gonna run a quick 4 or something down there the 17th so I will be there then.

I'm for the bigger ignition, but as said we went from a 6al to a 7al on the 306................sounded better...ran the same.

The fuel going into that motor with the tuneup he has is good for a smallblock..............its lean lean lean, the only thing saying it isnt is the egt........which is not a good tool to tune by....and besides you get one way off base its not gonna read right anyways.

I would screw with timing, shocks, tires, ladderbars, converter, leanouts or anything.............take it and run it with the tune it has now........then swap in a mid 70's pill and see what happens.

You change a bunch of stuff and you never know what fixed it.

I will agree with you on the hand held portable egt meters, but a logger tells you what you need to know and can be backed up with a wideband 02 , of course you need to watch your et slips too . The portables give you a spike when you dump the throttle. And you and I know injection will be rich on the corners with a victor.

I agree with you on making a bunch of changes at once .

You get alky injection on the fat side it will still be a bear down low, you get it lean it wont get out of its own way.

I am not arguing what his tune up is , but if its as lean as you say it is all you should have to do is look at the temp gauge

Three things about ign. boxes etc.....bad fat, bad lean or big comp. ratio......it takes more of it.

KY JELLY wrote:I am not arguing what his tune up is , but if its as lean as you say it is all you should have to do is look at the temp gauge

nearly 30* temp rise on the pass.

KY JELLY wrote:I am not against more ignition but I can tell you from experience the only thing I saw switching to a 7a from a 6a box was a lighter wallet. Now that was on a carbed 466 (5.51 et) and probably a little different story. The 7a did clean up the very top end crispness just a bit.

I am sure the 7a would be better with injection because you will have the ability to burn more fuel. The best thing you can do is install a high speed leanout I don't care what Ron's says they are worth et and its just a matter of common since if you think about it . You are not just holding a sustained fuel pressure it is increasing and your engine's need for fuel is decreasing with higher rpms less time to burn the excess fuel.

The reason they say its not very important is the same reason this high gear theory got started , it takes a substantial amount of mph to over come a good 60' time , a fat carb or injector will leave harder and there is a big tuning window. You got to stay on top of your tune up all the way down the track it all works together.

Kerry how far are you from dyersburg I can help you tune on that thing sometime. We are gonna run a quick 4 or something down there the 17th so I will be there then.

Dyersburg is doable for me with some notice and some cash. It's about 300 miles or so. I'm going to change shocks and make a pass or two then start on the fuel. I would love to let someone else take a look and help me tune. I also wanted to go to Okla. to met Jon and let him take a look.

Kerry

KY I know this sounds crazy but it sounds like you have a case of the yips. Go back to the basics that you know and go from there . To much help, nothing personal guy's.

uf63 wrote:KY I know this sounds crazy but it sounds like you have a case of the yips. Go back to the basics that you know and go from there . To much help, nothing personal guy's.

uf63 wrote:KY I know this sounds crazy but it sounds like you have a case of the yips. Go back to the basics that you know and go from there . To much help, nothing personal guy's.

sup Ben ....were you been

uf63 wrote:KY I know this sounds crazy but it sounds like you have a case of the yips. Go back to the basics that you know and go from there . To much help, nothing personal guy's.

After following this post for a while now, I would say there is a typo in the statement above ^^^^^^^^ Should have been directed at KN ........... I stood at the line and took a lot of pictures and watched all the cars leave at the BBF Bash. Kerry's car sounded like it was not leaving at a high enough RPM , converter was too tight ,or the engine was just really flat and of on the leave. The car would start to leave then you could hear the engine flatten out and watch the car nose over in the first 60 feet. Seemed like the converter was really tight to me and would not let the engine rev, kind of held it back. But it could also be in the tune like Jon said, to lean would make it act like this also. I really don't think it is a suspension issue. Like I said I watched all the cars right at the starting line, Kerry's did not do anyhting stupid, Stayed flat and low, looked like little to no front end travel, the rear of the car did not appear to spin the tires, compress or extend the shocks any, kind of like pulling out for a sunday cruise. I say it is either the alky tune, or the converter is just not suited for the engine. It may be a combo of both ???

Kerry, Don't take this as me picking your car apart. I am not brother. Just throwing out what I saw and listened to on Friday and Saturday. There definatley is a lot of ET left in the leave if you can get car moving in the first 60 feet. I would think a car as light as yours would 60' in the 1.25-1.30 very easily.

Travis

TravisRice wrote:

uf63 wrote:KY I know this sounds crazy but it sounds like you have a case of the yips. Go back to the basics that you know and go from there . To much help, nothing personal guy's.

After following this post for a while now, I would say there is a typo in the statement above ^^^^^^^^ Should have been directed at KN ........... I stood at the line and took a lot of pictures and watched all the cars leave at the BBF Bash. Kerry's car sounded like it was not leaving at a high enough RPM , converter was too tight ,or the engine was just really flat and of on the leave. The car would start to leave then you could hear the engine flatten out and watch the car nose over in the first 60 feet. Seemed like the converter was really tight to me and would not let the engine rev, kind of held it back. But it could also be in the tune like Jon said, to lean would make it act like this also. I really don't think it is a suspension issue. Like I said I watched all the cars right at the starting line, Kerry's did not do anyhting stupid, Stayed flat and low, looked like little to no front end travel, the rear of the car did not appear to spin the tires, compress or extend the shocks any, kind of like pulling out for a sunday cruise. I say it is either the alky tune, or the converter is just not suited for the engine. It may be a combo of both ???

Kerry, Don't take this as me picking your car apart. I am not brother. Just throwing out what I saw and listened to on Friday and Saturday. There definatley is a lot of ET left in the leave if you can get car moving in the first 60 feet. I would think a car as light as yours would 60' in the 1.25-1.30 very easily.

Travis

Travis,

I did not and would not take this as picking on me or my car. As noted in my posts I'm looking for help. Your advice and shared wisdom are very welcome here. As a matter of fact, I saw a video of my car this past weekend with the 1.44 short time. It depicts exactly what you are saying. We all thought it spun bad. The run looked like crap. On the hit it did not spin or go. Basically nothing happened. The wheelie bars hit the ground and bounced back up. About 40 feet they jumped all the way off the ground. The car sounded OK... and seemed to bog a little like it wanted to apply power about 40' out. The video is not that good but it seemed like it spun at that point. The car bounces on take off. All I've ever run is a leaf spring car with traction bars. I tried looking at some suspension info and felt like a first grader, I still don't know any more than before. She goes in the shop tomorrow afternoon after Church. I have borrowed QA1 single adjustable shocks with 110 lb. springs. I plan to move the pill from 108 to 80. I was going to make a ladder bar adjustment but found tonight that it is as low as it can go without relocating the front mount. I am going to flash the converter again just to make sure I know where it is on RPM. I think I'm OK with the timing with alcohol, about 38 - 36. I wish I could get that video on here for everyone to see. It is really interesting.

On a side note, I purchased a Go Pro HD Camera this week. In the very near future I plan to take video to try and help me tune the car. I will post as much and as often as I can. Maybe everyone can benefit from my misfortune and learn from my many mistakes.

Thanks to all for your help.
Kerry

Kerry,

To me it sound like your convertor is bad,,,meaning acting like a locked up convertor. Please beg, borrow, or steal another convertor and try it.

Uncle Charlie

Will do Charlie.

c.evans wrote:Kerry,

To me it sound like your convertor is bad,,,meaning acting like a locked up convertor. Please beg, borrow, or steal another convertor and try it.

Uncle Charlie

I too am thinking the converter is tightening up keeping the car out of its powerband so to speak on the leave. Not like to loose of a converter where the car screams when it leaves but does not go anywhere either. got to find the sweet spot for these things. I am just guessing but a 9" or 10" 4500-ish converter sounds like where you should be to me. Again I am no expert, but my expeirence with the ATI stuff is they sell everyone a 8" converter, my first would just plain not hold the torque of the BBF and would drive right through the thing. They would not tighten it up. Put a Contenental 10" that Perfomance Automatic sold in the car , 4500 ish and the car came to life. Did not rev the to the moon all the way down the track, pulled hard on the leave and through the gears, and mph a bunch more. 60's dropped a bunch, car started pulling the wheels also and driving out of it, not yanking it up and falling back down.

On the suspension, I would not worry to much with it at this time until you get the car to leave with the engine and tranny not acting goofy. (Meaning the tune and converter) Sometimes throwing more power at a car is a good thing and it will actually work better. That was the case with the 65 Galaxie. With the 514 and C-4 the car worked OK, Put the C-head 557 in and the car really worked a lot better , put Phillips 598 and a powerglide with a 10" TCI Pro-X converter and the car went instant 1.30 sixty foots on the back tires @ 3906#'s N/A with a 10.5W tire.

Travis

W

I flashed the converter again today at 5000. I replaced the 108 pill with a 82 pill and it flashed at 5500. I think everyones advice about being lean may be right on the head. I had 150 lb. springs on the back and I replaced them with 110 lb. springs and adjustable shocks. I will TNT Friday night 7-16-10 and let everyone know how it turns out.

Thanks
Kerry

500 rpm on the converter with a pill change???? I hate bein' right


I know when I had the car on gas is would go 5200, put the alky carb on it went 5600, the car runs were mid 6.0's, alky it when 5.80's.

Granted the gas carb was not right, but still.

Leave that damn egt gauge off until we get it honkin'