Thunderbird Sub-Frame Connectors - Pics Added

So, I was under the T-Bird yesterday trying to put a plan together for some sub-frame connectors. I have looked at all the other sub-frame threads for the Mustangs but the T-Bird looks as though the rear seat foot well is lower. The wheel base is also a bit longer, I think the diff is in the back seat area.

The way the floor is I don't think under-floor connectors would be good, too low. Has anyone put through the floor connectors on one of these?

Front s-f:


Rear foot well:


Rear s-f:


This cross member goes right across the car just behind the rear foot well:


I have access to a pair of slicks to go to the track but I don't wan't to twist this thing all up!!

Thanks!!

Bill

I've never done a t-bird but it looks like a 2x3 through the floor connector would be your best bet. A lot more work but well worth it.

Thanks! Do you run 2x3 all the way or drop it down to 2x2 at the front?

If I run through the floor, I won't even have to cut through the floor at the rear footwell.

Bill

Race Ready Fabrications wrote:I've never done a t-bird but it looks like a 2x3 through the floor connector would be your best bet. A lot more work but well worth it.

I agree, 2X3 is the way to go. A lot easier to overbuild than to underbuild........

Nevs wrote:

Race Ready Fabrications wrote:I've never done a t-bird but it looks like a 2x3 through the floor connector would be your best bet. A lot more work but well worth it.

I agree, 2X3 is the way to go. A lot easier to overbuild than to underbuild........

Good point Nev's!!

I guess I should build in such a way that a roll bar can be added.

Bill

On one end of the scale a car without a roll bar/cage of any kind really does need all the help the beefier 2x3 through-floor connector tubing will give. As you add some kind of a roll bar/cage you can reduce the size of the sub frame connector material a given amount (if you want to).

At the other end of the scale if you add a full SFI cage, the smaller round tubing (1-1/2 x .108 ms or 1-1/2 x .065 cm) will get the job done just fine for the inner frame rails/sub frame connectors.


All that damn undercoating is going to be "fun" to deal with.

DILLIGASDAVE wrote:On one end of the scale a car without a roll bar/cage of any kind really does need all the help the beefier 2x3 through-floor connector tubing will give. As you add some kind of a roll bar/cage you can reduce the size of the sub frame connector material a given amount (if you want to).

At the other end of the scale if you add a full SFI cage, the smaller round tubing (1-1/2 x .108 ms or 1-1/2 x .065 cm) will get the job done just fine for the inner frame rails/sub frame connectors.


All that damn undercoating is going to be "fun" to deal with.

Yeah, the engine bay was covered in it too. Too days of scrubbing and power washing to get it all out. It is just oil, not the tar stuff so its not tooooo bad.

The car never gets enough traction with street tires to hurt itself, but I'm afraid if I add slicks into the mix it will twist for sure.

Thanks for the info Dave!!

Bill

2x3 in the back and drop it down to some 2x2 as soon as it passes under the front of the driver's floor. Make it run all the way into the firewall. The 2x2 will barely sit above the floor and the carpet will cover it nicely. If you do it right you can run the 2x3 all the way back and actually tie into one of the lower control arm bolts...

The 2x2 in the front and 2x3 in the rear will make nice places to weld outriggers between there and the rocker when you add the cage...

jbozzelle wrote:2x3 in the back and drop it down to some 2x2 as soon as it passes under the front of the driver's floor. Make it run all the way into the firewall. The 2x2 will barely sit above the floor and the carpet will cover it nicely. If you do it right you can run the 2x3 all the way back and actually tie into one of the lower control arm bolts...

The 2x2 in the front and 2x3 in the rear will make nice places to weld outriggers between there and the rocker when you add the cage...

Thanks John, that sounds like a good plan. The 2x3 tubing will be ABOVE the floor pan in the rear foot well area, so no hope of covering that with carpet!!

I am hoping this thing NEEDS a roll bar!! I have priced out 6/8 point roll bars from C/E and AutoWeld and Alliston Chassis Works. All seem to be similar in price. I may as well go ahead and build in the outriggers at the same time.

I got a price of around $1,500 to $1,800 for an installed custom bent 6 point MS roll bar.

I appreciate the input guys!!

Bill

The rears on my 78 Futura were above the footwell too. I used the 2x2 up front because the taller 2x3 would interfere with your feet. Are you going to cut open the top of the front subframe and lay the 2x2 in there?

Carpet=weight........think race car!!!!

jbozzelle wrote:The rears on my 78 Futura were above the footwell too. I used the 2x2 up front because the taller 2x3 would interfere with your feet. Are you going to cut open the top of the front subframe and lay the 2x2 in there?

Yep I think that would get the best welds too.

Bill

Nevs wrote:Carpet=weight........think race car!!!!

Ha!! Street car too!!! Well, you can't hear the radio anyway. Might look at some bed-liner. My Fairmont was just painted black inside.

Bill

Just for thought Kenny Brown used to offer bolt in connectors that worked pretty good. Any chance you know what master cylinder to use when converting a 88 bird to manual brakes instead of power?
Thanks,
Steve

call karbelt for a quote on an 8 pt roll cage kit. i was surprised at how cheap they are. they are cut and notched just need welding. I have a pair on Mt slicks 28 x 15 x 10.5 with 3/4 rubber left you can have. I may have a set of older welds for you too. I updated both rims and rubber this year. Call me with dimensions and I will take them to the track some time for you.

Larry
905.434.7113

billandlori wrote:

jbozzelle wrote:2x3 in the back and drop it down to some 2x2 as soon as it passes under the front of the driver's floor. Make it run all the way into the firewall. The 2x2 will barely sit above the floor and the carpet will cover it nicely. If you do it right you can run the 2x3 all the way back and actually tie into one of the lower control arm bolts...

The 2x2 in the front and 2x3 in the rear will make nice places to weld outriggers between there and the rocker when you add the cage...

Thanks John, that sounds like a good plan. The 2x3 tubing will be ABOVE the floor pan in the rear foot well area, so no hope of covering that with carpet!!

I am hoping this thing NEEDS a roll bar!! I have priced out 6/8 point roll bars from C/E and AutoWeld and Alliston Chassis Works. All seem to be similar in price. I may as well go ahead and build in the outriggers at the same time.

I got a price of around $1,500 to $1,800 for an installed custom bent 6 point MS roll bar.

I appreciate the input guys!!

Bill

Larry Williams wrote:call karbelt for a quote on an 8 pt roll cage kit. i was surprised at how cheap they are. they are cut and notched just need welding. I have a pair on Mt slicks 28 x 15 x 10.5 with 3/4 rubber left you can have. I may have a set of older welds for you too. I updated both rims and rubber this year. Call me with dimensions and I will take them to the track some time for you.

Larry

That's very generous of you Larry!!

When is a good time to call?

Bill

i will be home all evening tonite. there is a possibility that I will take my daughter and her dragster to st thomas this weekend for test and tune. let me know what back space and bolt circle you need

Larry Williams wrote:i will be home all evening tonite. there is a possibility that I will take my daughter and her dragster to st thomas this weekend for test and tune. let me know what back space and bolt circle you need

I'll give you a call tonight.

I didn't know that St Thomas was still open!! I love that track, haven't been there in years. Haven't had anything to run

I just have an 8.8 rear in it so, the bolt pattern is 4 on 4 1/4". The back space needs to be around 4 1/2" to 4 3/4" max. The diff is out of a Mustang so its about 2" narrower than the Thunderbird diff. This sets the wheels into the wheel well a bit.

Talk to you later.

Bill

Sorry Larry, we got stuck at a job longer than expected. Figured you would prolly be heading for bed soon. I'll try giving you a call tomorrow night if that's OK.

Thanks,
Bill

Bill,

here's some pics of the SFCs in my Futura. Should give you a good idea of how they will look.










In this pic you'll see the outline of the 2x3 that was welded and pushed into the rear frame structure. We also welded all of the torque boxes up as well as the upper mounts...

Nice job John!! That looks reall solid there.

Thanks for the pics, they help a bunch!!

Bill