Ladder Bar vs. S/S vs. 4 Link ??

so if we had the same car, weight, engine/drivetrain combo who would have the advantage ...please explain ..

The one that has the set-up dialed in and everything working together............

the 4 link has lots more advantage, you can change the instant center from as close as under the seat all the way to 10 feet in front of the car.... from above ground level to below ground level.... I like them cuz of the ease of adjustment...... you don't have to disassemble the rear to change rod settings.....



I know Dave will be way more specific and the cost is almost the same.....




Randy

depends more on the user IMO.

For a drag car if rules/class allowed a choice, I would take an aftermarket ladder bar or 4-link setup over a stock suspension any day just because of the ease of adjustment & their bigger adjustment window vs the smaller window of a stock suspension/points setup.

But comparing to a "stock suspension" is opening a can of worms anyway cuz there are so many different stock suspension types/layouts.



In a few more years it won't matter anyway since the traction control boxes are being allowed more & more. Just let the box pedal the timing to hook the car regardless of suspension type. I took a trip to help a guy look over an ex Pro Mod roller he wanted to buy last month. The guys selling the car owned a few other cars (one nitrous & one turbo) that were "on the box". When I asked how they had the 4-links & shocks adjusted, they made it sound like they just leave things the way the chassis shop originaly set them & "work the box" instead.

OK , SO FROM YALLS STAND POINT THE 4-LINK HAS THE ADVANTAGE OVER THE S/S AND LADDER BAR ......

It has more adjustabilty, and to someone who wont fiddle with it then no its not.

SO LET LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD ..... WE HAVE AN A+ SUSPENSION TUNER ....... WHICH SUSPENSION HAS THE ADVANTAGE ??? IT WOULD BE THE 4-LINK ...

bruno wrote:SO LET LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD ..... WE HAVE AN A+ SUSPENSION TUNER ....... WHICH SUSPENSION HAS THE ADVANTAGE ??? IT WOULD BE THE 4-LINK ...

THE CAR THAT HAS THE W TIRE WOULD HAVE THE ADVANTAGE.

bruno wrote:SO LET LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD ..... WE HAVE AN A+ SUSPENSION TUNER ....... WHICH SUSPENSION HAS THE ADVANTAGE ??? IT WOULD BE THE 4-LINK ...

Thier is no real advantage other than adjustability..........

Whats with the caps today?

dfree383 wrote:

bruno wrote:SO LET LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD ..... WE HAVE AN A+ SUSPENSION TUNER ....... WHICH SUSPENSION HAS THE ADVANTAGE ??? IT WOULD BE THE 4-LINK ...

Thier is no real advantage other than adjustability..........

Whats with the caps today?

IT WAS ON, but I ain't retypin' that shyt................

dfree383 wrote:

bruno wrote:SO LET LEVEL THE PLAYING FIELD ..... WE HAVE AN A+ SUSPENSION TUNER ....... WHICH SUSPENSION HAS THE ADVANTAGE ??? IT WOULD BE THE 4-LINK ...

Thier is no real advantage other than adjustability..........

Whats with the caps today?

CONSTRUCTION IS GOING ON, WE HAVE TO YELL!

I would think the four link would be the best/easiest for most people. Stock suspensions are fast but when it all boils down to it Pro-Mods have 4 links.(but I guess that is really "stock suspension" on those cars) lol

sorry about the caps ... when im at my south store i just keep them on so i can see the screen ...


ok so we know the 4- link is the best ...but lets compare a s/s to a ladder bar ..who has the advantage then ???

I like the mustang stock suspension over the ladder bars due to their actions. I don't like how ladder bars work compared to the SS or 4 link. They work but I think that there is some wasted energy.

bruno wrote:WHICH SUSPENSION HAS THE ADVANTAGE ???

IT JUST DEPE.... ....[click, delete, delete, delete].... It just depends, there are too many variables to claim one is the "best" 100% of the time. Jon makes a good point about the "user" playing a part in the equation. Having massive amounts of adjustability can be a waste if the owner is a "set it & forget it" or a "it's close enough" kind of racer.


I guess a suspension "type" break down would go something like this........

Aftermarket 4-links:.....

Top tier - ultimate "PRO" style 4-links (super tall 1/4" 'moly housing & chassis brackets, 1 1/4" to 1 3/8" OD 'moly links, tons of 5/8 and-or 1/2 holes) = highest initial cost, most adjustability, strongest setup.

Middle tier - "Sportsman" 4-links (tall 3/16" to 1/4" ms or 'moly housing & chassis brackets, 1" DOM ms direct threaded or 1 1/4" OD 'moly links, usually has many 5/8" holes) = lower initial cost, lower adjustability, lower strength.

Bottom tier - "bracket/pro street" 4-links (short 3/16" ms housing & chassis brackets, 1" DOM ms direct threaded links, could have limited number of 5/8" to 3/4" holes) = lowest initial cost, lowest adjustability, lowest strength.

Shit tier - "street rod" 4-links ("shit" as far as drag racing is concerned). Pretty much useless in a drag car. Their parallel (or close to parallel) upper/lower links make for a smooth ride on the street, but parallel bars mean little or no I/C point to adjust.


Ladder bars........

Ultra top tier - Two newer designs of ladder bars. One design is much the same as the "top tier" bars, but with taller "4-link style" housing brackets (the bars & taller bracket form a larger "triangle" to carry more loading than a normal bar). And the other design uses a similar 4-link style housing bracket. But at the front the bars aren't welded together, they are joined together by brackets & a rod-end. A lot of people are calling this design a "triple adjustable" ladder bar.

Top tier - "Pro" double adjustable ladder bars. 1/4" 360* housing brackets, bigger 1 1/4" tubing , top rear rod-end hole is directly above/inline with the lower hole for more adjustability before binding, some have the top/bottom rear rod-end thread centers on the same axis again for more adjustability before binding.

Middle tier - "Sportsman" double adjustable ladder bars. 1/4" 360* or 180* housing brackets, 1" DOM direct thread or 1 1/4" tubing , top rear rod-end hole is directly above/inline with the lower hole for more adjustability before binding.

Bottom tier "Basic" double adjustable ladder bar. 180* housing brackets, 1" DOM direct thread tubing, top/bottom rear holes NOT in line causing less adjustability before binding happens.

Shit tier - any common "single adjustable" ladder bar. Yes they can work OK, but are a pain to adjust since they must be removed from the brackets/car to adjust them.



Stock suspension.......

See "can of worms"



To further "muddy the waters" might as well mention single bar "torque arms", Pro Mod "swing arms", dragster "swing arms" (not even close to being the same thing), the dragster setups that have the shock & pivot points right behind the driver, "rocker arm" setups that mount the shocks to the anti-roll via a rocker arm looking tubular assembly, the "street rod" ladder bars that point inward, the NASCAR style bars that point inward, street & drag 3-links (2 bottom bars & 1 top bar), etc, etc, etc........

the 4link adjustment's tend to get most folks in over their head,so i run ladder bars. if it aint got W's it dont count anyway!

I believe up to a certain power level it could be a toss up between a 4-link or ladderbar. Ladderbar may even have an advantage at a certain power level. But you get to a really high hp level the 4-link should have the advantage in the fact it is so adjustable to use the power more efficiently. You don't see Pro Mods running ladderbars.

BigDave65 wrote:You don't see Pro Mods running ladderbars.

Well you kinda do see a "cousin" of the ladder bar in Pro Mod since the PM swing arm stuff is really in effect 2 bigger-longer ladder bars (on steroids ) joined together.

i think a ladder bar is every bit as good as a 4link in a "door car".the 4link can work better for some becouse it's more adjustable.the only problem "I"have ever had with ladder bar's is hooking too hard.it's harder to figure out how to get enough bite out of ladderbar's in a faster car.the 4link has it over the ladderbar on adjustment,but thats it.and a ladderbar setup dont need a dam antiroll bar.

cool40 wrote:i think a ladder bar is every bit as good as a 4link in a "door car"

One big drawback to a ladder bar setup in a full chassis car is the packaging problem. If your looking to have a super low slung full chassis car with the driver sitting back against the wheel tubs and having a ton of leg room even with a bunch of engine setback, your out of luck with a normal ladder bar setup. If you don't mind the higher ride height, or less leg room, the ladder bar can be very usable in a lot of full chassis cars.

DILLIGASDAVE wrote:

cool40 wrote:i think a ladder bar is every bit as good as a 4link in a "door car"

One big drawback to a ladder bar setup in a full chassis car is the packaging problem. If your looking to have a super low slung full chassis car with the driver sitting back against the wheel tubs and having a ton of leg room even with a bunch of engine setback, your out of luck with a normal ladder bar setup. If you don't mind the higher ride height, or less leg room, the ladder bar can be very usable in a lot of full chassis cars.

good point,i'm kinda short so i never thought of it like that.

The thing I hate about ladder bars is they only have 3 contact points, and on the 4 link they have 4 contact points...
on ladder bars the front joint takes all the load, on the 4 link the upper links take the brunt of the load.... Plus I like the Idea of spreading the load....

Randy

The mustang stock style 4 link is very good. The trick is to get the instant center length and height correct along with using good DA shocks. Many of the radial cars have gone 1 teens, you just need to work with it.

There are a few promods and outlaw 10.5 cars running swingarms, just to throw something else out there.

Swingarm pic