Triangulated 4-link

How 'easy' would it be to install a custom triangulated 4-link using inner stock frame rails as attachment points on a Classic Mustang/Falcon? (I have a 65 Falcon). Mostly for cruising but will see drag strip now and then. Will be minitubbing to frame rail.

http://www.mcdonaldbrosracing.com.au/triangle4link.html


Or would I be better off using something like the Martz parallel kit?

http://www.martzchassis.net/mustangrearinstall

street or strip or street/strip ?

Northwest outlaw wrote:street or strip or street/strip ?

ummm...all of the above??

no, like i said....it will be mostly a street car, but will see the strip....maybe once per month or less. Looking for mid to high 10's on motor

Are you looking at kit for tire room?

Yessiree... I'm still mulling which route to go for rear suspension

1) "Bolt in" style 4-link...Martz
2) Custom 4 link - tri or parallel
3) Crites relocation with CalTracs

how big of a tire are you looking at ill have to pull up some pics to see what the set up is under that car.

As large as will fit up until the stock frame rail with a mini tub... I believe that's about 10 - 11 inches width.

a 275 60/15 or something in that area

Most of the kits i found i didnt like. are you working with a buget the first kit i didnt like at all it is more a low hp air ride set up. the first kit would be ideal for some thing like this yea i know i own a chevy and a toyota.

budget...hmmm...well the Martz kit is about $1300, which is doable. I'm not installing this, mind you, and I am going to pay to have it done right the first time. I can't weld and my car is with the builder back home.

I don't care for any of your choices but if that is the selection I would go with the caltracs. I hate triangulated 4 links. They are just a compromise so I don't understand why anyone would "upgrade" to an abortion. They are made by people that build low riders and hot rods, neither which are any kind of performance application IMHO. Do you want to keep the back seat? I would put a 3 link in it like this. http://www.iimuchfabrication.com/Rear%20Suspension/photos/IMG_9687.html With a mini tub you should easily be able to fit a 315 in the back and a tight 325 drag radial.

I hear you...I have a custom 3-link on the front of my Land Cruiser, which the former owner installed for rock crawling/off road...its a stout piece. You don't see 3-links much for street/strip drag racing (the second mission for this car) and wondering how good they are for that?

What about the Martz setup? It's quasi-bolt-in/weld kit...also parallel 4-link.

Would like to keep a semblance of a back seat...yes.

Thanks for any more input.

You could make one like they have on the factory 5 roadsters.

http://www.factoryfive.com/table/newsltr/newsltr02/threelink.html

What kind of ride are you looking for? If it is going to be a street/strip boulevard bruiser why not just put ladder bars with coil overs in it? There was a bazillion street cars in the 80's like this. They ride a little rougher and you need to watch your entry/exit to parking lots but it is not like you are going to be driving like a mad man on the street anyways. Plus they fit underneath with no problems and are quite affordable. Make sure and use rod ends in the front so you have a little more articulation in it.

I am putting a Griggs severe duty torque arm in my 64 Falcon so we will see how that works out. It is a different kind of three link. I don't know what the power limit is on them but there has been some very fast 5.0's with them.

I also bought some frame rails from Autoweld . If you scroll down on the link below you will see the rails by themselves. They go straight back instead of tapering out like the factory rails. I haven't put them in yet (or know if I am going to at all) but they would definitely allow some tire toom back there.
http://autoweldchassis.com/spec.ivnu


When I installed my subframe connectors I put them inside of the factory rails so if I add the autoweld rails I will have plenty of tire room. There will also be room to maintain the factory gas tank etc.

Which one is a pic of your Falcon? Should start a thread of the build


The frame rails are good and I wanted to stay with stock ones...I don't want to get too crazy with chopping it up, which is why I looked for a clean car to begin with.

Definitely not opposed to a 3-link, but that Griggs stuff is mucho dinero $$$ Yes, it is mostly a street car with some strip. So, that means ladder bars are a no-go...it will see too much street time for that and the technology available nowadays should allow for something doable without resorting to ladder bars.

"Street and strip vs street or strip".........your either going to have to make a choice one way or the other, or make compromises. This is because there is no one size fits all "best" rear suspension setup that will work perfectly for every application & intended use.

The "best" 4-link for a drag car has equal length bars (or as close as possible), very tall brackets with a lot of holes for many I-C choices, 'moly rod-ends for strength, inline design so the upper & lower bars (not triangulated) will reduce torque/load binding, either a diagonal link/wish bone/X link to center housing, and a rigid anti-roll to eliminate as much body roll as possible.

The "best" 3 or 4 link for a stock(ish) frame street driven car has squishy urethane rod-ends for the best ride quality, triangulated layout to help center the housing, in a lot of cases real short top bars to work with limited space due to factory frame layout, limited bracket size/holes/I-C choices (for the same reason), a "springy" sway bar to allow some body roll, and if an added centering device is needed, either a panhard bar or a Watts linkage.

So to build a true street and strip car you going to have to make some compromises somewhere. If you take the "little from column A, little from column B" compromise approach you can end up with a car combo that does both "OK" but not as good as it could be building the car just for one or the other category.


Your two original choices are probably very nice "street use" rear suspensions if urethane rod-ends are used, but there lacking as far as a "drag racing" setup goes. And some of the air-ride shit might be great for the street, but their useless on a drag car.

DILLIGASDAVE wrote:"Street and strip vs street or strip".........your either going to have to make a choice one way or the other, or make compromises. This is because there is no one size fits all "best" rear suspension setup that will work perfectly for every application & intended use.

The "best" 4-link for a drag car has equal length bars (or as close as possible), very tall brackets with a lot of holes for many I-C choices, 'moly rod-ends for strength, inline design so the upper & lower bars (not triangulated) will reduce torque/load binding, either a diagonal link/wish bone/X link to center housing, and a rigid anti-roll to eliminate as much body roll as possible.

The "best" 3 or 4 link for a stock(ish) frame street driven car has squishy urethane rod-ends for the best ride quality, triangulated layout to help center the housing, in a lot of cases real short top bars to work with limited space due to factory frame layout, limited bracket size/holes/I-C choices (for the same reason), a "springy" sway bar to allow some body roll, and if an added centering device is needed, either a panhard bar or a Watts linkage.

So to build a true street and strip car you going to have to make some compromises somewhere. If you take the "little from column A, little from column B" compromise approach you can end up with a car combo that does both "OK" but not as good as it could be building the car just for one or the other category.


Your two original choices are probably very nice "street use" rear suspensions if urethane rod-ends are used, but there lacking as far as a "drag racing" setup goes. And some of the air-ride shit might be great for the street, but their useless on a drag car.

Thanks, Dave. I definitely understand some compromise will have to be made indeed... and to answer your first questions, it will be a street and strip car, but mostly street. However, I would like something that works on the strip, of course. Two things that definitely won't be done are air ride or ladder bars, so we can rule those out of the equation.

As far as that compromise goes, I'm not looking for a corner-carver, just something I won't really notice if trying to turn a corner or park...especially safety-wise. Doing both "OK" street and strip is good enough for me for sure.

From what I can tell, Fox body mustangs work pretty well with factory tri 4-links. Parallel 4-links work a bit better for drag use. What about a 3-link? Any of them will have to be fabricated anyhow, so where should I start for my intended purpose? I want to keep it simple (KISS) but am not averse to doing the 'best' compromise.

Orrrr....Stick with the crites/caltracs?

windsor wrote:Which one is a pic of your Falcon? Should start a thread of the build
Definitely not opposed to a 3-link, but that Griggs stuff is mucho dinero $$$ Yes, it is mostly a street car with some strip. So, that means ladder bars are a no-go...it will see too much street time for that and the technology available nowadays should allow for something doable without resorting to ladder bars.

My car is the bottom picture. The T/A picture is from Griggs but that is what mine will look like when I get everything installed. They had a sale this spring for 25% off so that is why I bought it. Total was still around $2300 plus shipping.

The frame rails are good and I wanted to stay with stock ones...I don't want to get too crazy with chopping it up, which is why I looked for a clean car to begin with.

That is what I thought when I bought mine. Until I scraped all the undercoating off the bottom and found all this tin riveted under the carpet. Nice "restoration". At least I had no bad feelings about cutting the floor up to put my subframe connectors.

How soon are you looking to do this? I will be sure to give some feedback when I am done mine but don't hold your breath the way I work.

Here is a link for another mini tub deal with leafs.

http://www.jwracing-fab.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164

BTW, the caltracs ride rougher than stock leaf springs as well (at least they did on my Pinto).

Yep, seen that link quite a few times...have it saved in my bookmarks

It should be at least started by the end of the year. Car is with the builder and we're going back and forth about which systems to use. He's very receptive to ideas, but I'll likely go with his ultimate recommendation...unless I'm dead against it.

Still looking for ideas on a 3-link for drag racing. How would the Grigg's hold up?

Well Moser has one on their site that says for 10 second cars and faster.....
I know the strength of the design has to do with torque output and the gear ratio. That is a pretty long lever to be pulling on. Griggs states the regular T/A is good for about 500 hspr (IIRC) and the severe duty on is for higher than that. Of course as soon as I mentioned drag racing he went right to the severe duty one anyways.



http://www.moserengineering.com/Images/New%20Products/m9torquearm.pdf

too bad Griggs is so expensive...that kit is over $3k and that's without a housing.

Everytime I tell myself that the crites looks much more attractive!

I'm not asking to be a smarty pants, but what is wrong with this kit from first appearance? From my uneducated suspension eyes, it looks like a decent parallel 4-link:

Other than packaging it don't see how it can offer any more street manors than a regular four link. The IC would be very short which could make it hard to tune. How much is it because all this street rod stuff out lately starts around $2K and goes up. I was thinking about doing a 3 link (or to build this unit) and it wouldn't take much at all. You could use regularly available ladder bar brackets/4 link brackets with the shock mount. Trim off the top what is not needed. You can buy bars or make them yourself with weld in ends and add either rod ends/or urethane bushings. When I did my Calvert type deal on my pinto I used some lower bars from a four link kit kicking around. They were just the right length. Building a upper shock mount would be easy as well. You could buy or build a panhard bar depending on how skilled you are as well.

BTW, there is a nova in this months PHR that runs 9.40's with a calvert/leaf set up. That would be the cheapest by far and probably fit your street manor needs.

Check with Art Morison Ent.
They have a bunch of diferent rear setups,and have nice stuff too.

A generic 3-link (two bottom links & one top link on passenger side close to centerline of car) is probably a usable setup for the street. But since they only have one top link it does make it harder to shift side-to-side preload weight around for drag racing.

WJ did experiment with a 3-link Pro Stock car years ago (don't remember if it was his NHRA or IHRA car). It did have a bunch of launch body roll. Don't really remember if it ran any killer numbers back in the day, but he didn't run it too long before going back to a 4-link.

Primarily, I want to keep it simple and am leaning towards the crites/caltracs. It's definitely the cheapest way to go. Of course, this changes every week.

I like the fact that the Martz 4-link geometry etc is already factored in, and that crossmember uses factory mounting holes and places the control arms inside of the factory frame rails, for plenty of room. It's also $1300 + $300 for the sway bar. Yes, it does require quite a bit of welding to install.

Any other good ideas for best compromises?