Victor vs TFS Mafis vs Tunnel Ram

Lem Evans wrote:KY Jelly dyno #s. 562" P51 & w/mafia intake

951 @ 6,700
951 @ 6,800
951 @ 6,900
951 @ 7,000

I wish it had been pulled higher but I see no indication that the engine was going to lay down @ 7,100 rpm.

Bobby Shrewsberry's 557" P51 w/ported Victor was done @ 6,600 rpm.

That same intake on my 572 had similar results.

922 @ 6700
924 @ 6800
924 @ 6900
922 @ 7000
922 @ 7100
918 @ 7200

then it fell off at 7300 as power dropped to 911, but that is with a stock set of p51s (unported).

I thought a stock p51 casting at that rpm at 572 cid would struggle some?

Which intake would be best if a person truely wanted a motor to peak at 8000 rpm or higher assuming all matching components were used in the engine?



A TUNNEL RAM ,HANDS DOWN

how did it run..............

BOSS 429 wrote:Which intake would be best if a person truely wanted a motor to peak at 8000 rpm or higher assuming all matching components were used in the engine?



A TUNNEL RAM ,HANDS DOWN

I have to disagree with you,,,IF you are talking about a Weiand or Offy tunnel ram for the OEM & CJ style heads. Those tunnel rams are over 40 years old. They both need a ton of work including a good bit of welding in order to make them work.

I'll agree with you if you're talking about the TFS A-460 tunnel ram, or a properly built sheet metal tunnel ram.

Charlie

c.evans wrote:

BOSS 429 wrote:Which intake would be best if a person truely wanted a motor to peak at 8000 rpm or higher assuming all matching components were used in the engine?



A TUNNEL RAM ,HANDS DOWN

I have to disagree with you,,,IF you are talking about a Weiand or Offy tunnel ram for the OEM & CJ style heads. Those tunnel rams are over 40 years old. They both need a ton of work including a good bit of welding in order to make them work.

I'll agree with you if you're talking about the TFS A-460 tunnel ram, or a properly built sheet metal tunnel ram.

Charlie

---------------------------------

the question was which would be best? the answer is a tunnel ram .

I havent used a stock weiand t/ram in years, all the ones i use have a lot of welding done,and yes it will make more power then a victor as long as the heads will run with it,

WHY would you assume ?

bruno wrote:

IDT-572 wrote:The Victor is more like 65-67 and the Mafia is like 6700 and holds to 6900 and the tunnel ram still peaks under 7000 but it makes more torque than the Mafia. This is all on higher hp engines.

so why does my deal slow down if i lower my shift point from 7200

Nick mine does the same thing, Its the rpm that the engine falls back to on the shift, It is falling back onto some good numbers when shifting at 7200.

BOSS 429 wrote:Which intake would be best if a person truely wanted a motor to peak at 8000 rpm or higher assuming all matching components were used in the engine?



A TUNNEL RAM ,HANDS DOWN

Out of the box, none of the intakes will make any decent power at 8000 rpm, they would be faster shifting at 7200, but the tunnel will still be faster because of the extra torque it makes but not by much.

A total reconstruction of the older tunnels is needed to make them peak anywhere close to 8000 rpm. To the point where a sheet metal intake looks good, if your doing the work yourself.

IDT-572 wrote:

BOSS 429 wrote:Which intake would be best if a person truely wanted a motor to peak at 8000 rpm or higher assuming all matching components were used in the engine?



A TUNNEL RAM ,HANDS DOWN

Out of the box, none of the intakes will make any decent power at 8000 rpm, they would be faster shifting at 7200, but the tunnel will still be faster because of the extra torque it makes but not by much.

A total reconstruction of the older tunnels is needed to make them peak anywhere close to 8000 rpm. To the point where a sheet metal intake looks good, if your doing the work yourself.

Yea Blake ... A "Tunnel Ram" isn't limited to just a cast manifold.
Sheet metal tunnel rams can be made with almost any size or length runners using whatever size plenum you desire.
I didn't hear anybody say there was a cost limitation on whatever manifold will make the most power at or above 8,000 RPM, lol.

richter69 wrote:how did it run..............

How will it run above peak power is the issue...

The main issue with the "Victor" aint as much about were it quits but, that it falls on it's ass quickly there after.
The prototype 'mafia' intake that was on KY's 562" deal was 17 HP better than the ported victor....but they did not peak at the same rpm.
The difference in the HP numbers at 7,000-7,300 rpm are much greater than 17 HP. This is not an opinion....fact.

Lem Evans wrote:The main issue with the "Victor" aint as much about were it quits but, that it falls on it's ass quickly there after.
The prototype 'mafia' intake that was on KY's 562" deal was 17 HP better than the ported victor....but they did not peak at the same rpm.
The difference in the HP numbers at 7,000-7,300 rpm are much greater than 17 HP. This is not an opinion....fact.

Which part of the intake would be the "ass"? Sorry just could not resist. LOL

Steve

Seems it's those long runners at the corners

Is there any benifit using the mafia intake on tfs street heads if they will not peak above 6500 rpms ?

we have seen several of these max ported tfs street engines on dyno and it seems that if they are at least 12:1 or better, the torque peak is right at 4800 rpm and peak hp is at right at 6500 regardless of the cam used. They just make bigger numbers there as compression and cam size goes up.

Must be tied into the small port high velocity nature of the castings

Does the 'Mafia' status/improvements apply strictly to the 4500 intake, or has any of that been implemented on the 4150 model?

Thanks

I'm currently working on modifying an Offy T/R in such a way that the runners will be shorter and also closer to full CJ-size from the plenum to the cylinder head flanges than they are as-cast. The modification also results in the plenum volume being increased. It's actually a pretty simply mod, with more machining than there is welding. I'm not yet sure what the median-runner-lengths will be when completed so I cannot yet say what it will be idally suited for, but it will certainly be better suited for bigger engines and/or higher rpms. It's too bad that the Offy accomodates only 4150-style carb pads, but that might just be another mod with spacers and more machining...

So, it obviously won't be a cure-all but it ought to be much improved for the effort involved. I'll post pics and dyno results when completed.

Paul

10SHOTS wrote:Is there any benifit using the mafia intake on tfs street heads if they will not peak above 6500 rpms ?

we have seen several of these max ported tfs street engines on dyno and it seems that if they are at least 12:1 or better, the torque peak is right at 4800 rpm and peak hp is at right at 6500 regardless of the cam used. They just make bigger numbers there as compression and cam size goes up.

Must be tied into the small port high velocity nature of the castings

The heads aren't the problem it's the intake. Put the TFS Streets on a 466 inch engine with the right intake and cam and it will make power way above 6500.

DFI429 wrote:Does the 'Mafia' status/improvements apply strictly to the 4500 intake, or has any of that been implemented on the 4150 model?

Thanks

To the best of my knowledge, none of the changes that were done for the Mafia intake (with it's 4500 carb pad, and also bigger taller runners), were incorporated into the 4150 Street manifold. It remains the same as it always was before the "Mafia" manifold came out.

Charlie