A question of OIL PUMPS.

First let me give the setup, if I may.

Basic 460, nothing fancy.
Much attention to detail.
Snug bearing clearances.
Synthetic oil.
Remote oil filter (Chevy type) w/ported adapter.
Ford HD oil cooler
Approximately 10' #12 oil line
Accessory oil line from front oil pressure tap to rear tap.
Oil pressure indicator sending unit located at rear.
8 quart capacity system.

Sunday after returning from Owensboro I decided to change the oil in my old "service truck', a 1982 F150. I have intended for some time to remove the oil cooler and remote filter since the truck doesn't have the extended hard towing it once did. I removed the fore mentioned items and installed a Motorcraft FL400 filter and 5 quarts of 5W20 petroleum oil. Now mind you, the truck has the factory oil pressure indicator, so oil pressure measured in PSI is not available. I noticed after the routine service and starting the oil pressure indicator rose quickly to just outside the high normal range. Prior reading with the oil cooler and remote filter, the indicator would rise slowly and not quite to the high end of normal. I understand the quickness of the indicator's rise. I understand, I think the bit higher indicator reading.

Here's my question.
Does a ordinary HV pump that has been polished and blueprinted suffer from pushing this much oil, and if it does, what part of the pump suffers more?

Just wondering,
Dave.

IMO the part (in the system) that suffers the most is the distributor gear and the roll pin going through it. I have seen distributor gear teeth from high volume/high pressure pumps become sharp enough to shave with. Also, I'm sure we have all seen or heard of sheared roll pins, and/or twisted intermediate driveshafts.

Charlie

LivermoreDave wrote:... I noticed ... the oil pressure indicator rose quickly to just outside the high normal range.
Here's my question.
Does a ordinary HV pump that has been polished and blueprinted suffer from pushing this much oil, and if it does, what part of the pump suffers more?

Just wondering,
Dave.

In a mild mannnered, OEM bearing-clearanced engine such as yours, the load difference between high volume and std volume pumps is slight enough that it can easily be compensated for by running a lighter weight oil. The result (of using a lighter oil in a HV pump) will be the same pressure as the standard volume pump but while moving more oil through the oiling system and thereby keep parts cooler and cleaner. This was tested and documented by dyno testing oil pumps of various types on an engine by Steve Brule at Westech Engineering.

That being said, I don't see the need for an HV pump in your engine. My F250 engine pegs the high range of the gauge with a HFD std volume Street/Strip pump and 20w/50 Valvoline Racing.

c.evans wrote:IMO the part (in the system) that suffers the most is the distributor gear and the roll pin going through it. I have seen distributor gear teeth from high volume/high pressure pumps become sharp enough to shave with. Also, I'm sure we have all seen or heard of sheared roll pins, and/or twisted intermediate driveshafts.

Charlie

Charlie, I would say that your point about the high pressure is what loads the gear more than the pumping volume itself. Engine builds utilizing high volume pump setups that are tweaked for the pressure increase as well--and which is ususally unneccesary--may result in accelerated gear wear. But I think pressure is what loads the gear more than volume, of which the excess volume from an HV pump is simply bypassed if unneeded (assuming the same bypass pressure).

Also, within many worn gear examples are often incorrect thrust boss clearance. The best analogy of that that I can give is a ring and pinion that has the incorrect lash setup which can also result in razor sharp teeth; high horsepower (= high load) engines will not necessarily sharpen the ring gear teeth of a properly setup differential but driving a car with a bone stock engine can certainly kill a ring & pinion (and sharpen the teeth of the ring gear) if the lash is too loose.

Dave, I have a std volume melling/frpp/p. kane pump is you want to try it.

Thanks guys for the input. I have or had to address almost each point, each of you mentioned. Roll pin, twice. Distributor gear, no. When planning the build, I thought a detailed HV pump without pressure increased would move the amount of oil through the oil system adequately, relative to my application. The first pull went very smooth, as far as the engine was concerned. Not thinking clearly and admitting my stupidity now, I changed the oil to 15W50. That's when the roll pin issue started. Ever change out a roll pin on the side of the road after an engine has ran for an hour or so at 3000 RPM while pulling a heavy load? To say the least, it's a bitch! Back to the 5W30.

Paul Kane wrote:In a mild mannnered, OEM bearing-clearanced engine such as yours, the load difference between high volume and std volume pumps is slight enough that it can easily be compensated for by running a lighter weight oil.

I must agree with Paul. There is a fine line as to the type of pump and the weight of oil that will agree with each other.

As Lem has offered an alternative oil pump, I first thought I was going to change pumps to solve my dilemma. Somehow it all cured itself, with a bit of common sense! To this day, the pump I purchased to replace the HV unit remains on the parts shelf at the shop!

To this day, the old 460 is as smooth as a song sang by Patsy Cline, well almost! It tows my trailer loaded with my tractor without too much effort, and hasn't ask for any unnecessary attention.....yet!

Thanks again guys, it was good conversation of sorts,
Dave.