C-6 No third gear again

in My mud truck I do not use third very often but it never seems to last very long. I have a redneck transbrake(had a coan) and have alto red eagle clutches and kolene steels builder used Franks specs on the clearances. The truck is air shifted most of the time with a dedenbear air shift system and a cheetah turbo action shifter. I have the sonnax r-servo and the e-apply lever. any ideas as to what is causing this?

Im sure somebody on here can help you....I always get answers.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/260730/

how many clutches and how much clearance?

5 clutches .060 clearance

Ok I need some info and we can get this thing fixed,

What is the fluid psi hot and what is it cold ?
Do you have a large cooler and deeper pan ?
What is the stall speed and diameter of your torque converter?
Is it rollerized?
What is the temp of trans fluid?
What temp is your engine running and the power out put of the engine ?

I do not have a temp guage or pressure for the tranny. I do mud racing 125 ft pits transbrake never held more than 1 or 2 seconds. the tranny has the 4 wheel drive pan which is deeper than stock car pans, 5200 transbrake convertor 9 inch, fully rollerized with wide ratio gear set from a 4r100, For a coller I converted the a/c condensor and use 3/8 hydraulic hose between it and the tranny, engine oil temp i get to 140 degrees and then cool the water temp back down to 120-130 degrees. Motor is in the build section 495 iron head 760 hp/630tq.

The five friction deal is more than enough, I'd get a press gauge on the deal for sure.


Not sure an A/c condensor has the proper flow rate for atf, need to check that as well.

I think you need to invest in a real tranny cooler, that a/c condenser is not any where near enough..


Randy

The condensor I have has the same size lines as a standard tranny cooler and covers the entire front of the radiator. The transmission has not shown signs of heat inside the only thing that shows any issue is third gear clutches/steels. Last year I thought I had lost second gear at the end of the year but when we pulled the tranny all was ok found out the convertor had gotten hot and it needed rebuilt.

I know people have run a/c condensers and been ok, but the problem is that they really do not flow very well at all. Since your converter got hot and died already, you can already see that there is a lot of heat in the unit.

Hot fluid loses viscosity and magnifies any internal leaks in the valve body or pump, which reduces pressure.

You really need to know what the pressures are to keep this trans alive.....you also need to know the temperature. You've got oil pressure and temp gauges on the engine, right?



What has been discovered wrong the last couple of times that high gear went out?

It is possible that centrifugal apply is burning the direct clutches before they can even be engaged. I know Jay likes to have a very small hole in the direct apply section to allow fluid to escape under high RPM to alleviate this issue.

Greg

Ok if the clutches are burnt and converter is burnt then sounds like it has a cooling or lubrication problem.
I would put a deep aluminium pan on it
I would get a new cooler sometimes size doesn't matter. Larger isn't always better.
Cooler with fan from B&M.
You really need to check the fluid psi.
ck the following.
Valve body torque
Band adjustment
clutch pack clearance
Keep clean everything do not wipe anything off with a shop towell .
Cleaner and air nozzel

Todd,

Here's a picture of the stacked cooler with fan that I was telling you about.





I got mine from Blake the Snake and then added on a thermostat switch that controls the fan. It kicks on at 180F.

This is where Blake mounted his, as you can see, you don't need much space. I have mine out front.



Blakes cooler has -6 inlet and outlet. Mine has -8 inlet and outlet.

OK I can get a new cooler this winter thats not a real big deal to switch it out but when the convertor went out ptc said it looked as if the type f fluid I was using(now has john deere hyguard) was foaming causing the convertor to get hot the inside of the tranny at that time still looked good and clearances were ok. So far we have found no other problems when third goes out and fluid looks and smell ok up to that point. Greg you bruoght up something I have wondered about since I rarely use third gear is it possible for it to apply tcentrifugally or be dragging when i release the transbrake?

lghting94 wrote: Greg you bruoght up something I have wondered about since I rarely use third gear is it possible for it to apply centrifugally or be dragging when i release the transbrake?

Yes the centrifugal apply happens in 1st gear . A small .040" bleed hole cures that . What rpm do you run ? Anything over 6k needs the hole .

I'd ditch the type F, yeah Frank gets away with it but this is a mud truck correct? Put a good synthetic in there and give it hell.

I'll bet as said a few times the a/c cond is a restriction, if you can find one get a tranny cooler from 03 and up superduty and stick a 14" elec fan on it. Deep pan would help also. Also the cent. appy could be happening here since you dont use high gear much.

Sorry for the delay guys my internet went down saturday morning.

Gregaust I generally shift at 7000-7300 1st to second and come out the end around the same depnding on track bite. Wher does the hole need to be?

Richter69 I quit using the type F this spring after getting the convertor back I now run the john deere Hyguard. I will work onthe tranny cooler this winter .

Do you guys think it will be alright to mount the tranny cooler in the bed if I put a fan on it?

No problem mounting it in the bed as long as you have air on each side of the cooler/fan.

If I put it in the bed it will probably be somewhat centered in there but I plan on having a bed cover on the truck also.

The small bleed hole is drilled from inside the drum with it all disassembled , in the outer corner on an angle outwardstill it breaks through the front face of the drum. Since you are not using 3rd and at those RPM's i'd say thats what you have happening. I can see if i dig up a pic of the hole if you need it .

Thank You Greg when i take it apart i will see if this has been done if not i will get it done.

Quit drilling holes to bleed the apply pressure in the direct drum !!!!!!!!!!! it's for people that don't have a clue!!!!! or F##$$@#$cked VB's, you shifter is NOT HITTING THE DETENTS IN THE TRANS when the manual valve is loaded with hydralic pressure!!
Frank