LIFTERS WENT BAD????--NEED ADVICE

Hosting site? Never heard of that. What is the name of one of these hosting sites? Or do you have a Web address?

YouTube comes to mind.

There are lots of others as well

dkp

maverick wrote:You have a pm.

Sent ya an email with the short video (took video with my phone). Let me know if you get it or not and your thoughts. Thanks...

Got the video. It's pretty tough to hear the "tick" among the general roar of the engine bay.

One more question...What brand are your rocker arms and have you inspected the underside of the rocker arms, specifically in the area where it's closest to the edge of the valve retainer? Look for any evidence of rocker to retainer contact. It would be between the trunnion and the rocker tip at the valve. Some rocker/retainer/pushrod combos can cause interference there. I kinda doubt you'll find the issue there because it's likely you'd hear it with the stethoscope, but still...  

maverick wrote:Got the video.  It's pretty tough to hear the "tick" among the general roar of the engine bay.

One more question...What brand are your rocker arms and have you inspected the underside of the rocker arms, specifically in the area where it's closest to the edge of the valve retainer?  Look for any evidence of rocker to retainer contact. It would be between the trunnion and the rocker tip at the valve.  Some rocker/retainer/pushrod combos can cause interference there.  I kinda doubt you'll find the issue there because it's likely you'd hear it with the stethoscope, but still...  

Im using a Comp Cams roller lifter. I'll have to pull the rocker off and look at the area you're taking about. One would think if it was interfering, I would have had this problem as soon as I fired it up after rebuilding the engine, not 800 miles later. But I'll keep digging.

I have personally had that problem before. It caused me a little more grief than a ticking noise, though...It caused the retainer to "flutter" and it broke the locks in the retainer. Since this was a race engine with open headers, we didn't hear the clicking. While checking valve lash, I found a LOT of clearance and discovered broken locks and a valve working its way out of the retainer. One more burnout would have probably destroyed the engine. I lucked up.

I agree it seems unlikely, as you should've heard it with the stethoscope. But you're running out of things to check

maverick wrote: I have personally had that problem before.  It caused me a little more grief than a ticking noise, though...It caused the retainer to "flutter" and it broke the locks in the retainer.  Since this was a race engine with open headers, we didn't hear the clicking.  While checking valve lash, I found a LOT of clearance and discovered broken locks and a valve working its way out of the retainer.  One more burnout would have probably destroyed the engine.  I lucked up.

I agree it seems unlikely, as you should've heard it with the stethoscope.  But you're running out of things to check

One thing I've noticed that might be of significance is that I have notice a very random miss in the tail pipe. It sounds like the engine is missing, but it's not consistent whatsoever, just every now and then. Im presuming this is valve train related but still not sure what to inspect.

I doubt that the random occasional miss you hear in the tailpipe is related to the consistent ticking under the hood. Of course, I've been wrong before...recently, no less.  

That random miss can be something as simple as a droplet of fuel from the accelerator boosters. Sometimes at idle there is enough vacuum to pull raw fuel out of the booster.

My ticking sound sounded like it was coming from the right side,I found the bad rocker on the left. (Harmonics)

Update...did some more inspecting last night and here's what I found. When I was listening for the bad lifter using a pipe to my ear, the noise sounded like it was coming from the #5 or #6 cylinder area. When I used my stethoscope, I couldn't tell which lifter/rocker arm was tapping because it sounded the same on all the drivers side rocker arm studs. So after pulling the rocker arms off and inspecting them and checking the pushrods to see if they were bent, I couldn't find anything broke, bent or damaged. So I decided to inspect the passenger side valve train, thinking that maybe the sounds I was hearing was resonating from another area. Turns out my hunch was right. When I pulled the valve cover off I discovered the #1 rocker arms were sloppy loose. I thought this was odd because I had tightened all the rocker arms when I got the truck home when I initially broke down. So I tightened them again and also checked all the other rocker arms for correct adjustment. At this point I was really excited because I was sure I had found the problem. So I put the valve cover back on and fired up the truck. It sounded really good at first with only a faint ticking sound, but then it got louder as I let the engine run. And that's where we stand for now. My plan tonight is to take the valve cover back off and check to see if the rocker arms have any slop in them again. Im also going to inspect the rocker arms and pushrods really well. Im also going to use the stethoscope and see if I can pinpoint the problem lifter. It's not fixed yet, but it seems im getting closer. Im in much better spirits today than I have been since this problem started. We'll see what I find tonight....

Let's hope it ain't a busted lifter.  

maverick wrote:Let's hope it ain't a busted lifter.  

Oh I'm sure it is. With my luck, it's never something simple and inexpensive.

Well I inspected the rest of the lifters on the passenger side tonight and I discovered that none of the lifters are holding hydraulic pressure. I ran the engine and then immediately inspected the lifters after I shut the engine off and all of them were a little bit loose, not sloppy loose, but loose enough for them to make the noise I'm hearing. It seems that when I pumped them full of air, it damaged them. So just as my luck goes, I need to replace the rest of the lifters. So in the end, I ended up having to replace all my lifters. Crap!!!! But putting a positive spin on this, at least I think I have the solution, which makes me happy. We'll see what happens.

In the process while I'm waiting for my lifters to arrive, I'm pulling the oil pan and will be inspecting the oil pump and pickup tube to make sure there are no cracks or leaks anywhere. According to everyone I've talked to, this seems to be a rare thing to happen (oil pump sucking/pumping air into the lifters), even if it was only two quarts low. I've had vehicles lower on oil than that before and have never had this happen. So I'm doing what I can to make sure there's not a crack somewhere in the oil pump or pickup tube. I don't need this happening again.

I'll update you when I get the lifters installed and get the engine fired up. Please pray this takes care of the problem. Thanks you all for your help an advice...

UPDATE.....well I'm at a loss. I have no idea what to look at next. I replaced every single lifter with new ones and fired it up and it's still making the extremely loud tapping sound. It's up high in the engine but I can't identify Exactly where it's coming from. I listen to the engine running from the drivers side and it sounds like it's on that side, then I go to the passenger side and it sounds like it's on that side too. Maybe it's in the center of the engine somewhere, which means cam?????????????????????????? I have no idea. I need someone to tell me where to look next. All the pushrods are arrow straight. All the rocker arms look great. The lifters are new. So what else could be making this noise??? Some guys keep thinking I wiped out a cam lobe, but it's a roller cam so I doubt that's the issue...... I feel like I'm chasing a ghost. Any ideas guys????

I read your all six pages PARTLY. all lifters had gone bad i think thats what happened you replaced all the lifters to how about looking at the tips of the rocker arms I don't know if some one had said that or not sorry if they did or if you already had looked

Rabbit wrote:I read your all six pages PARTLY. all lifters had gone bad i think thats what happened you replaced all the lifters to how about looking at the tips of the rocker arms I don't know if some one had said that or not sorry if they did

I inspected the rocker arms and they looked good as far as I could tell. They are roller rockers and there wasn't any damage to the wheel or the pushrod cup that I could see.

do these new lifters stay up? rockers stay tight?

Do you mean do the lifters hold pressure or are the rocker arm nuts backing off? I can guarantee the rocker nuts are not backing off. They have a set screw in the center and they're super tight. Now the lifters I just removed tonight and replaced with new ones didn't seem to hold pressure. I ran the engine for about 3 minutes then shut it off and immediately checked the rockers and they all seemed to be loose. So I replaced them with new lifters because I thought pumping the lifters full of air damaged them. But after putting in new lifters, I still have the extremely loud tapping sound. And the tapping seems to only be coming from one source. What I mean is if it's a lifter, it's only one lifter, not multiple lifters. But now that the lifters are new, I'm convinced it's something other than a lifter. I just don't know what.

Can you post some pic's (closeup) of both sides of your engine   

Somebody may have already asked but what kind of valve covers you running? I had some that were not quite tall enough before. It really didn't make noise but I could se the stock cover moving lol.that was a solid cam but had it been hyd I could see it being a problem. Just a guess....

bbf-falcon wrote:Can you post some pic's (closeup) of both sides of your engine   

I took some pictures for you guys with my phone, but when I tried to post them they said the file is too big. Does anyone know how to reduce the size of a picture so I can post it on here? I also have a short video of the engine running that you can hear the loud ticking sound. I figured that would help someone identify what the issue is. I can't post it on here because the file is too big even though the video is only a few seconds long (already tried posting it), but I could e-mail it if you're willing to give me your e-mail address. I could send you the pictures also. If you're wanting to look at the valve covers to see how tall they are, here are the valve covers I have. Go to this website

http://www.mustangsunlimited.com/itemdy01.asp?T1=M6582C460+01&Category=Engine&subCategory=Valve+Covers%2FHardware%2FGaskets&SubSubCategory=429%2F460&CatKey=Truck

The description states: "Measures 4-1/2" tall, so they will clear roller rockers and stud girdles"

I have been using these valve covers ever since the engine was built and I have about 800 miles on it now. I've never had any interference problems with the valve covers. In fact, I had to find a smaller diameter power brake booster just to clear the valve covers because they were so tall.

Thanks for all the advice guys. Keep it coming. I'm hoping one of these days someone can steer me in the right direction as to what this noise is I'm hearing....

Are you runnung a pvc valve? If so take it out of the VC while the engine is making the ticking sound and see if it stops.

I believe he has run the engine w/o valve covers while looking for this noise. Doubtful it's the vc's or pcv.

maverick wrote:I believe he has run the engine w/o valve covers while looking for this noise. Doubtful it's the vc's or pcv.

You are correct. I've run this engine w/o the valve covers.....