Custom oil pan

So, I think I may have to either make a custom oil pan or modify and existing one for my set up. My engine sits very close to the cross member and a front sump pan runs into the power steering rack. I can almost fit a rear sump pan in there but the pan slopes down to the rear sump area at an angle. The top of that angle runs into the cross member as well.

I have considered cutting most of that angle out and running a piece of sheet metal straight up and down just after the cross member. Any thoughts on this?
JSM

JigSawMan wrote:So, I think I may have to either make a custom oil pan or modify and existing one for my set up. My engine sits very close to the cross member and a front sump pan runs into the power steering rack. I can almost fit a rear sump pan in there but the pan slopes down to the rear sump area at an angle. The top of that angle runs into the cross member as well.

I have considered cutting most of that angle out and running a piece of sheet metal straight up and down just after the cross member. Any thoughts on this?
JSM

What vehicle are you working on ? PS Lem Evans can build you something custom..... Do you have any pics ?

JigSawMan wrote:So, I think I may have to either make a custom oil pan or modify and existing one for my set up. My engine sits very close to the cross member and a front sump pan runs into the power steering rack. I can almost fit a rear sump pan in there but the pan slopes down to the rear sump area at an angle. The top of that angle runs into the cross member as well.

I have considered cutting most of that angle out and running a piece of sheet metal straight up and down just after the cross member. Any thoughts on this?
JSM

Would a rear sump pan like the fox Mustangs use work for you?

Looks like this...

No, that fox body one has a drop down in front which would get in the way.
JSM

bruno wrote:

JigSawMan wrote:So, I think I may have to either make a custom oil pan or modify and existing one for my set up. My engine sits very close to the cross member and a front sump pan runs into the power steering rack. I can almost fit a rear sump pan in there but the pan slopes down to the rear sump area at an angle. The top of that angle runs into the cross member as well.

I have considered cutting most of that angle out and running a piece of sheet metal straight up and down just after the cross member. Any thoughts on this?
JSM

What vehicle are you working on ? PS Lem Evans can build you something custom..... Do you have any pics ?

It is a 66 Mustang that is set up pro street. Full cage from front to rear, stroked 460 with a Paul Horton Mustang II front end.
JSM

JigSawMan wrote:No, that fox body one has a drop down in front which would get in the way.
JSM

The "drop down" is the pocket for the oil pump which is ~6.5" deep. The 'fox' style pans are 5"-5.25" deep in the middle. If you shorten the front up you can't put an internal oil pump on the engine.

Are you going to use an external pump?

Lem Evans wrote:

JigSawMan wrote:No, that fox body one has a drop down in front which would get in the way.
JSM

The "drop down" is the pocket for the oil pump which is ~6.5" deep.  The 'fox' style pans are 5"-5.25" deep in the middle.  If you shorten the front up you can't put an internal oil pump on the engine.

Are you going to use an external pump?

But with a rear sump I could, right?

JigSawMan wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

JigSawMan wrote:No, that fox body one has a drop down in front which would get in the way.
JSM

The "drop down" is the pocket for the oil pump which is ~6.5" deep.  The 'fox' style pans are 5"-5.25" deep in the middle.  If you shorten the front up you can't put an internal oil pump on the engine.

Are you going to use an external pump?

But with a rear sump I could, right?

I'm sorry but I do not understand the question. You could do what with a rear sump?

Lem is telling you that to run an internal oil pump you have to have space in the front of the pan for a pump.....

460pulling wrote:Lem is telling you that to run an internal oil pump you have to have space in the front of the pan for a pump.....

Or you need to run an external pumping you delete the space in the front.

dfree383 wrote:

460pulling wrote:Lem is telling you that to run an internal oil pump you have to have space in the front of the pan for a pump.....

Or you need to run an external pumping you delete the space in the front.

I understand that, but is that whole drop down in the front of the pan 100% necessary to contain the pump? If not, how do I do an external pump system? I'd prefer not to go with a dry sump system if possible as cost would be a major factor. Once again, to clarify, my engine sits close to the cross member and the power steering rack gets in the way of the front drop down on typical oil pans. So my choice is to either:

1) modify the pan somehow to accomodate this and accomodate the oil pump
2) as you guys mentioned run an external pump system, but I am not sure what the details are for that
3) modify the front cross member to slightly move the power steering rack - though I am not sure if that can really be done

Thanks,
JSM

Pull the oil pan off and sit motor in. The internal oil pump only goes on a 460 in one place.

External oil pump needs a pan with a suction port for pump. Mandrel drive setup. Pump. Scavenge filter to protect pump. Remote oil filter setup. Lines and fittings.

Can u raise engine?

So as long as the oil pump and the pan fit in place, I am good to go. If not then, please let me get this straight in my head.

An external oil pump would mount to the side of the engine like any other accessory, correct? I'd just have to find a way to drive it. Right now there are no plans for AC, so the only items on the engine will be power steering and the alternator. I assume I could tie in the external oil pump into the same belt that drives the power steering. My question then would be how do I pipe the oil from the sump inside the oil pan to the oil pump outside of the oil pan? Then where to I hoook the external oil pump to in order to put oil back into the engine?

My other option instead of raising the engine (tight fit right now with my set up - mostly transmission related), is that I spoke to Paul Horton (cross member) and asked him what he thought about me cutting the top of the cross member off just under the oil pan only and flipping it upside down. I only considered maybe 1/2 inch. Once flipped over, I would gain that 1/2 inch which would make clearance. However, I still have to more than likely content with the power steering rack so how. So my questions there is, if I can modify the oil pan where it comes into contact with the power steering rack, can I adjust sheet metal in it to suck everything as tight as I can get it next to the oil pump? I'd certainly allow for a degree of space between the indise of the pan and the pump itself.

Let me know what you guys think about that.
JSM

JigSawMan wrote:

dfree383 wrote:

460pulling wrote:Lem is telling you that to run an internal oil pump you have to have space in the front of the pan for a pump.....

Or you need to run an external pumping you delete the space in the front.

I understand that, but is that whole drop down in the front of the pan 100% necessary to contain the pump?  If not, how do I do an external pump system?  I'd prefer not to go with a dry sump system if possible as cost would be a major factor.  Once again, to clarify, my engine sits close to the cross member and the power steering rack gets in the way of the front drop down on typical oil pans.  So my choice is to either:

1) modify the pan somehow to accomodate this and accomodate the oil pump
2) as you guys mentioned run an external pump system, but I am not sure what the details are for that
3) modify the front cross member to slightly move the power steering rack - though I am not sure if that can really be done

Thanks,
JSM

External pump looks like this......

So, how far from the pan rail of the block to the cross member at the front of the engine?

Lem Evans wrote:

JigSawMan wrote:

dfree383 wrote:

460pulling wrote:Lem is telling you that to run an internal oil pump you have to have space in the front of the pan for a pump.....

Or you need to run an external pumping you delete the space in the front.

I understand that, but is that whole drop down in the front of the pan 100% necessary to contain the pump?  If not, how do I do an external pump system?  I'd prefer not to go with a dry sump system if possible as cost would be a major factor.  Once again, to clarify, my engine sits close to the cross member and the power steering rack gets in the way of the front drop down on typical oil pans.  So my choice is to either:

1) modify the pan somehow to accomodate this and accomodate the oil pump
2) as you guys mentioned run an external pump system, but I am not sure what the details are for that
3) modify the front cross member to slightly move the power steering rack - though I am not sure if that can really be done

Thanks,
JSM

External pump looks like this......

That's what I thought. I currently have this set up with a Gilmer drive. Are these external oil pumps set up to be run on the drivers side of the engine as well? I'd have to place mine there and run it on the same belt system as the power steering.
JSM

Lem Evans wrote:So, how far from the pan rail of the block to the cross member at the front of the engine?

I cannot say for sure right now. I have to set the block back in place. Right now the car is on a rotisserie while I finish up some under the car body work. I plan to finish that up this weekend and then set the block back in. I will have to answer that then.
JSM

A pump can be used on either side. You will need a remote oil filter mount also.

JigSawMan wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:So, how far from the pan rail of the block to the cross member at the front of the engine?

I cannot say for sure right now.  I have to set the block back in place.  Right now the car is on a rotisserie while I finish up some under the car body work.  I plan to finish that up this weekend and then set the block back in.  I will have to answer that then.
JSM

You need to discover that...it's the biggest piece of the puzzle.

Lem Evans wrote:

JigSawMan wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:So, how far from the pan rail of the block to the cross member at the front of the engine?

I cannot say for sure right now.  I have to set the block back in place.  Right now the car is on a rotisserie while I finish up some under the car body work.  I plan to finish that up this weekend and then set the block back in.  I will have to answer that then.
JSM

You need to discover that...it's the biggest piece of the puzzle.

And just to be certain, the pan rail is the flat portion of the engine that the oil pan seats up to, correct?
JSM

Lem Evans wrote:A pump can be used on either side. You will need a remote oil filter mount also.

Lem, thanks for that info. So can you describe how the oil gets pulled from the pan and then put back into the engine please? I am unclear on that.
JSM

JigSawMan wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

JigSawMan wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:So, how far from the pan rail of the block to the cross member at the front of the engine?

I cannot say for sure right now.  I have to set the block back in place.  Right now the car is on a rotisserie while I finish up some under the car body work.  I plan to finish that up this weekend and then set the block back in.  I will have to answer that then.
JSM

You need to discover that...it's the biggest piece of the puzzle.

And just to be certain, the pan rail is the flat portion of the engine that the oil pan seats up to, correct?
JSM

Yes.

Ok thanks

JigSawMan wrote:

dfree383 wrote:

460pulling wrote:Lem is telling you that to run an internal oil pump you have to have space in the front of the pan for a pump.....

Or you need to run an external pumping you delete the space in the front.

I understand that, but is that whole drop down in the front of the pan 100% necessary to contain the pump?  If not, how do I do an external pump system?  I'd prefer not to go with a dry sump system if possible as cost would be a major factor.  Once again, to clarify, my engine sits close to the cross member and the power steering rack gets in the way of the front drop down on typical oil pans.  So my choice is to either:

1) modify the pan somehow to accomodate this and accomodate the oil pump
2) as you guys mentioned run an external pump system, but I am not sure what the details are for that
3) modify the front cross member to slightly move the power steering rack - though I am not sure if that can really be done

Thanks,
JSM

the front sum is their for the pump to fit, so the short answer is no you can't do away with it.

The external pump is a single stage belt driven pump on the front of the engine, similar to a dry sump, but the pan is the oil tank and the pump only has a single stage, not 3 to 7 like a dry sump system.

It is more expensive than the in pan pumps but cheaper than a full dry sump system.

Can someone describe how the oil gets pulled from the pan and then put back into the engine when using an external oil pump please?
Thanks,
JSM