Bushed Lifters

I am building a 638 C head engine and having the lifter bores bored to .904 and bushed. Trying to decide between the Morel .904 lifters and the Crower Severe Duty HIPPO lifters. Anybody running either of these or have any opinions to which I should use?

Both are good lifters.

Morel. It's a better lifter.

Heard that Morel makes the Erson and PBM lifters, but looking at the PBM's, they look different. Any truth to that? In the same boat looking for a good .903 lifter for a new build. My engine guy can get the PBM parts for less money than the Morel, but don't want to get a bad copy and that be the cause of a potential failure.

dfree383 wrote:I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO

PBM and Morel?

dfree383 wrote:

kjett wrote:

dfree383 wrote:I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO

PBM and Morel?

Morel or Crower, I've never used Erson or PBM

Morel makes many of...maybe all of The PBM/Erson lifters.

kjett wrote:

dfree383 wrote:I've run both and either one is a great choice IMO

PBM and Morel?

Morel makes some of PBM's lifters.

Remember that just because Morel makes it, doesn't mean that they are made to the same standards. The marketer tells them what they want and ask them to build it within their price parameters. If you want Jesel performance, you'll only have one choice.

Curt wrote:Remember that just because Morel makes it, doesn't mean that they are made to the same standards. The marketer tells them what they want and ask them to build it within their price parameters. If you want Jesel performance, you'll only have one choice.

Your not correct in your first statement.  Only difference is what is laser etched on the Tie bar sir.    And when it comes to quality I dont' think Hendrick Motorsports would be using Morel exclusively if the quality was not good.

Straubtech wrote:

Your not correct in your first statement.  Only difference is what is laser etched on the Tie bar sir.    And when it comes to quality I dont' think Hendrick Motorsports would be using Morel exclusively if the quality was not good.

I'm not saying that Morel's quality is low. I'm also not saying that the Morel lifter they use in nascar is the same one you can buy off the self. What I am saying, is that not all lifters are equal, especially if they are re-tagged.

Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf

Curt wrote:

Straubtech wrote:

Your not correct in your first statement.  Only difference is what is laser etched on the Tie bar sir.    And when it comes to quality I dont' think Hendrick Motorsports would be using Morel exclusively if the quality was not good.

I'm not saying that Morel's quality is low. I'm also not saying that the Morel lifter they use in nascar is the same one you can buy off the self.  What I am saying, is that not all lifters are equal, especially if they are re-tagged.

I can assure you from Morel they all are. Now they will build a special run of lifter for anyone, but the same exacting tolerances are in all their series of lifters. From the $250 a set stuff to the $6000.00 a set stuff. The other huge advantage that Morel has over any other manufacturer of lifters is in house heat treat.

There are only 2 suppliers to NASCAR that are branded lifter mfg in our industry and that is Morel and Jesel. Toyota builds there own and Roush/Yates was using a German company, but I have heard they may be coming back to Morel.

Straubtech wrote:Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf

Lets be clear. When Morel sends a set of lifters to HMS, HMS only needs to measure the diameter of one lifter because the other 15 are exactly the same or within .0001. I'm guessing and hoping that you're still measuring all of your installs.

Curt wrote:

Straubtech wrote:Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf

Lets be clear.  When Morel sends a set of lifters to HMS, HMS only needs to measure the diameter of one lifter because the other 15 are exactly the same or within .0001. I'm guessing and hoping that you're still measuring all of your installs.

The boys in "NC" take everything apart and check it. Morels tolerance on the tie bar lifters is .0004"

Curt wrote:

Straubtech wrote:Here is Morel's thank you to HMS...

http://www.johncalliesinc.com/pdf/JimmieJohnson_NASCAR_7thWin.pdf

Lets be clear.  When Morel sends a set of lifters to HMS, HMS only needs to measure the diameter of one lifter because the other 15 are exactly the same or within .0001. I'm guessing and hoping that you're still measuring all of your installs.

Where do you get all this information?

Scott Foxwell wrote:
Where do you get all this information?

The interwebbiethingie.

Sorta in a different direction.....I have a set of Morel lifters in my 598. The Ultra Pro's. .875 diameter. In the next couple of weeks I'm going to pull them to be sent for a freshen up. Nothing wrong, but it's insurance. Pay a little now or a lot later. Just give the 598 a physical. Rebuild lifters, new springs, new Danny Bee belt.

Is it possible for Morel to convert them to their bushed roller lifter to get rid of the needle bearings?

Would I even want to?

Use is 7K rpm, little over .800 lift. 250/850 spring pressures.

David Cole wrote:Sorta in a different direction.....I have a set of Morel lifters in my 598.  The Ultra Pro's.  .875 diameter.   In the next couple of weeks I'm going to pull them to be sent for a freshen up.  Nothing wrong, but it's insurance.  Pay a little now or a lot later.  Just give the 598 a physical.  Rebuild lifters, new springs, new Danny Bee belt.

Is it possible for Morel to convert them to their bushed roller lifter to get rid of the needle bearings?

Would I even want to?

Use is 7K rpm, little over .800 lift.  250/850 spring pressures.

Chris will have to confirm but I don't think Morel is doing any conversions and frankly I don't think it's necessary for what you're running. Keep on top of your spring pressures and make sure your geometry is right and your lifters should last many hundreds of passes. In my experience, when a needle lifter fails, it's usually not the lifter's fault. If you want the added insurance of a bushing lifter that's understandable but you have to remember; a bushed lifter is a maintenance item just like a bronze dist. gear. They will wear. The biggest difference between them and a needle roller is the bushing will give you a warning when it needs replacing instead of filling your engine with little steel pins.

Hello Chris,

Did Nascar rules dictate solid roller needle lifters instead of the better bushed lifters?
I am trying to wrap my head around this one. Why would Hendriks use a needle lifter instead of the better bushing type?

Cheers

68galaxie wrote:Hello Chris,

Did Nascar rules dictate solid roller needle lifters instead of the better bushed lifters?
I am trying to wrap my head around this one. Why would Hendriks use a needle lifter instead of the better bushing type?

Cheers

Bushing is not better. Rob's power. Bushing was designed by Morel to be a warning feature to tell you when the valve train is in failure mode and if not caught not destroy the engine when it goes catastrophic.

Thank you Chris.

I initially thought (probably from manufacturers claims) that the bushing lifter had a far higher load capacity (300 X) and would outlast by a very large margin the needle type roller lifters. 
I do understand the "warning" that a bushed lifter offers over the needle type lifters. However what is the difference in actual lifter lifetime? any?

Cheers

68galaxie wrote: and would outlast by a very large margin the needle type roller lifters. 
Cheers

That right there is the problem with the bushing lifter and how some market it. Just because it is a bushing doesn't mean it will last longer. The bushing is an insurance policy against catastrophic failure. The bushing lifter does give more spring load capacity to applications that really need larger lifters, but do to cost or machining use OEM .750" wheel stuff. In an offset application the bushing is a a better choice but will still need frequent rebuilding compared to an on center lifter.

I have had real good luck with the isky std size bushed lifters ,they are offset for the Chead .
they have about 450 runs on them at this point and are still in nice shape .