Oiling modifications... and how much power?

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Damn,,,I've already told you that published stuff ain't real.

Alright partner, the way I see it there's only one way to settle this. I'm callin' you out. You buy one of each cylinder head and I'll pay to have them flow tested at an independent, third party facility. If I'm right, I get to keep the heads. If you're right, I'll buy you a nice steak dinner.

I've already seen all the mentioned heads flowed on a local bench and I have owned all of the mentioned heads......so go call someone else out. So you don't have to pay for anything.  I am offering you direct observation not opinion.

It was a joke man, nothing more. A set of heads for a steak dinner? C'mon.

So anyway, back on track... sorry if my joke was misconstrued.

Here's what I found for flow numbers on the various heads I looked at. The BOSS 9's are obviously a badass head, but the price range is more than what I'm willing to spend. In this article (http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hemi-vs-wedge-shootout-jon-kaase-settles-one-of-the-most-fiercely-debated-topics-all-time-with-ultimate-dyno-test/) it shows how Kaase did a back to back dyno test on his 521 and the BOSS heads made 99 hp more than the P51's on the same engine with the same cam. I also think it's safe to assume that the superior flow on the exhaust side had a lot to do with contributing to that kind of a gain. I don't really even know why I put them on there... maybe to show that flow numbers aren't everything.

One thing that I was only able to find on the AFR heads was port area. This is a critical dimension when choosing a head, so I'm confused as to why it wouldn't be advertised along with the flow numbers. If you take a look at what I was able to compile for advertised numbers, you can see that the AFR's are very close to the TF on Intake flow, and outflow the TF on exhaust flow all the way up to 0.650" lift.

I understand that you're saying that these numbers might not be accurate, and I'm more than willing to believe that. What I'd really like to see is if there is anyone that has ACTUAL, non-biased flow numbers for the TF and AFR heads, as delivered, no port work, straight out of the box. I'd also really like to know what the port area (at the choke point) is on the TF's. I've tried contacting TF to find out, but all I get is their "please hold, our next agent will be with you in [robot voice] one minute". After a 15 minute drive home with my phone on Bluetooth listening to their hold music and hearing that I'd be taken care of in "one minute" I gave up.

I think I stated it in one of my previous posts that Trick Flow is a little deceptive with their flow numbers because they flow them on unrealistic bores. I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that AFR did something to manipulate their tests to get a few more cfm to add to their chart as well. It's called marketing. That's exactly why I come here, to see if I can find these answers from guys who have used the parts, guys who have no skin in the game (as far as making money on a sale). I just want to get the TRUE answers. Sometimes it's pretty hard to get that when all you can deal with is the manufacturer. Let's say TF, AFR and Brand X all had a cylinder head out there that I could potentially use, and all three manufacturers charged exactly the same. If Brand X truly was the best head for power, TF knew it, and AFR knew it, do you honestly thing TF or AFR would turn me toward Brand X if I called looking for the best cylinder head in that price range? I highly doubt it.

Anyway, enough of the rambling. I'm hoping that this image shows up. Again, these are just numbers I got off the manufactures websites (except for the SCJ, P51, and BOSS 9, those numbers came from forums and the BOSS 9's were admittedly slightly ported). If anyone can insert more accurate numbers from first hand, real world testing, or if you know the port area at the choke point, please let me know so I can adjust my spreadsheet. Thank you very much.

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Damn,,,I've already told you that published stuff ain't real.

Alright partner, the way I see it there's only one way to settle this. I'm callin' you out. You buy one of each cylinder head and I'll pay to have them flow tested at an independent, third party facility. If I'm right, I get to keep the heads. If you're right, I'll buy you a nice steak dinner.

I've already seen all the mentioned heads flowed on a local bench and I have owned all of the mentioned heads......so go call someone else out. So you don't have to pay for anything.  I am offering you direct observation not opinion.

It was a joke man, nothing more. A set of heads for a steak dinner? C'mon.

Believe it or not people on here have fondled and played with every head that's avaliable for a 460 based engine and a few heads you'll never be able to get or ever see.

Might want to listen a little more rather than rambling on about magazines and internet stories and "calling out" people that are honestly trying to help you with the real world facts.

nickpohlaandp wrote:So anyway, back on track... sorry if my joke was misconstrued.

Here's what I found for flow numbers on the various heads I looked at. The BOSS 9's are obviously a badass head, but the price range is more than what I'm willing to spend. In this article (http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hemi-vs-wedge-shootout-jon-kaase-settles-one-of-the-most-fiercely-debated-topics-all-time-with-ultimate-dyno-test/) it shows how Kaase did a back to back dyno test on his 521 and the BOSS heads made 99 hp more than the P51's on the same engine with the same cam. I also think it's safe to assume that the superior flow on the exhaust side had a lot to do with contributing to that kind of a gain. I don't really even know why I put them on there... maybe to show that flow numbers aren't everything.

One thing that I was only able to find on the AFR heads was port area. This is a critical dimension when choosing a head, so I'm confused as to why it wouldn't be advertised along with the flow numbers. If you take a look at what I was able to compile for advertised numbers, you can see that the AFR's are very close to the TF on Intake flow, and outflow the TF on exhaust flow all the way up to 0.650" lift.

I understand that you're saying that these numbers might not be accurate, and I'm more than willing to believe that. What I'd really like to see is if there is anyone that has ACTUAL, non-biased flow numbers for the TF and AFR heads, as delivered, no port work, straight out of the box. I'd also really like to know what the port area (at the choke point) is on the TF's. I've tried contacting TF to find out, but all I get is their "please hold, our next agent will be with you in [robot voice] one minute". After a 15 minute drive home with my phone on Bluetooth listening to their hold music and hearing that I'd be taken care of in "one minute" I gave up.

I think I stated it in one of my previous posts that Trick Flow is a little deceptive with their flow numbers because they flow them on unrealistic bores. I can't say for sure, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find that AFR did something to manipulate their tests to get a few more cfm to add to their chart as well. It's called marketing. That's exactly why I come here, to see if I can find these answers from guys who have used the parts, guys who have no skin in the game (as far as making money on a sale). I just want to get the TRUE answers. Sometimes it's pretty hard to get that when all you can deal with is the manufacturer. Let's say TF, AFR and Brand X all had a cylinder head out there that I could potentially use, and all three manufacturers charged exactly the same. If Brand X truly was the best head for power, TF knew it, and AFR knew it, do you honestly thing TF or AFR would turn me toward Brand X if I called looking for the best cylinder head in that price range? I highly doubt it.

Anyway, enough of the rambling. I'm hoping that this image shows up. Again, these are just numbers I got off the manufactures websites (except for the SCJ, P51, and BOSS 9, those numbers came from forums and the BOSS 9's were admittedly slightly ported). If anyone can insert more accurate numbers from first hand, real world testing, or if you know the port area at the choke point, please let me know so I can adjust my spreadsheet. Thank you very much.

Your data has a lot of errors.

dfree383 wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:Damn,,,I've already told you that published stuff ain't real.

Alright partner, the way I see it there's only one way to settle this. I'm callin' you out. You buy one of each cylinder head and I'll pay to have them flow tested at an independent, third party facility. If I'm right, I get to keep the heads. If you're right, I'll buy you a nice steak dinner.

I've already seen all the mentioned heads flowed on a local bench and I have owned all of the mentioned heads......so go call someone else out. So you don't have to pay for anything.  I am offering you direct observation not opinion.

It was a joke man, nothing more. A set of heads for a steak dinner? C'mon.

Believe it or not people on here have fondled and played with every head that's avaliable for a 460 based engine and a few heads you'll never be able to get or ever see.

Might want to listen a little more rather than rambling on about magazines and internet stories and "calling out" people that are honestly trying to help you with the real world facts.

X 2.
The guys on this forum have forgotten more then ALL the Facebook heroes combined...
Guys like Lem , Charlie, Phillip , Randy , as well have others have been fondling heads for years...
Point is...Their opinion is based on experience, NOT internet "facts" or an interest in selling a certain set of heads

nickpohlaandp wrote:

It was a joke man, nothing more. A set of heads for a steak dinner? C'mon.

Well, I tried to help you an let you know that there is a lot of experience here.

Rule #1 was you should listen to any poster on here with the last name of Evans.
There are also a couple of Engine Master competitors on here, and in this thread.

You don't have to take anyone's advise, but don't make yourself look silly debating with some of the most knowledgeable BBF masters on the planet.

QtrWarrior wrote:...Their opinion is based on experience, NOT  internet "facts" or an interest in selling a certain set of heads

I love how when you come to a new forum everyone assumes you know absolutely nothing about anything. My father used to tell me a few things, and I'll never forget them. First, don't judge a book by it's cover, because you have no idea what it may contain (cliché, I know). Second, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and most of them stink. I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for facts. That's why I said "If anyone can insert more accurate numbers from first hand, real world testing, or if you know the port area at the choke point, please let me know so I can adjust my spreadsheet."

Look guys, I'm not here to debate on who knows more than who on what subject. I'm looking for answers based on unbiased fact. Opinions are not fact. As far as me cutting up a little bit with the whole "I'm calling you out..." business, if you really took that seriously or took offense to that, you need to chill out. This is a forum. I have zero effect on whether your mortgage gets paid, you marriage works out, your car goes faster... nothing. Every forum I've ever been a part of has been a group of guys (and gals) that share their knowledge and rib at each other here and there. It's supposed to be a friendly environment, not a bigger dick contest.

nickpohlaandp wrote:

QtrWarrior wrote:...Their opinion is based on experience, NOT  internet "facts" or an interest in selling a certain set of heads

I love how when you come to a new forum everyone assumes you know absolutely nothing about anything. My father used to tell me a few things, and I'll never forget them. First, don't judge a book by it's cover, because you have no idea what it may contain (cliché, I know). Second, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and most of them stink. I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for facts. That's why I said "If anyone can insert more accurate numbers from first hand, real world testing, or if you know the port area at the choke point, please let me know so I can adjust my spreadsheet."

Look guys, I'm not here to debate on who knows more than who on what subject. I'm looking for answers based on unbiased fact. Opinions are not fact. As far as me cutting up a little bit with the whole "I'm calling you out..." business, if you really took that seriously or took offense to that, you need to chill out. This is a forum. I have zero effect on whether your mortgage gets paid, you marriage works out, your car goes faster... nothing. Every forum I've ever been a part of has been a group of guys (and gals) that share their knowledge and rib at each other here and there. It's supposed to be a friendly environment, not a bigger dick contest.

Good luck...... enjoy

Have you read this thread yet?:

https://www.429-460.com/t119-cylinder-head-pecking-order

It's a little dated but still applies, except the AFR head is not yet placed in the pecking order due to their newness.

windsor wrote:Have you read this thread yet?:

https://www.429-460.com/t119-cylinder-head-pecking-order

It's a little dated but still applies, except the AFR head is not yet placed in the pecking order due to their newness.

Thanks. Yeah, I think I had seen that in my searching. A buddy of mine has the EX514 heads (aluminum, no iron) and he swears by them. You weren't kidding when you said "a little dated". I didn't look at the original posting date, but as I was reading down the post it said something along the lines of "...the new Kaase SCJ heads and soon to be released P51's...", lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but today, aren't the SCJ's considered to be the very bottom of quality aftermarket heads for the 385 series? And now the P51's aren't quite gone, you can still get them, but there's a wait if you want some. I was talking to Cliff over at Kaase probably about two weeks ago and he let me know they're still available. I guess they're not available en masse though because there's better, cheaper options now.

Someone PM'd me and said there's a guy named Carl (I think) who is on here and he's probably the only one with experience with the AFR's. I wish he'd post some information... if he's around.

Carl has already posted in this thread. Scotty J has also built an engine with AFR and Mr. Lem Evans has a post on Facebook that showed him and Mr. Philip Oakley are building something with AFR heads, as well.

I wouldn't say there are "better, cheaper options" over a P51. I think the general consensus around is that below the A460 style heads, the P51 is the best bang-for-buck head available for the BBF. This likely remains the case until the AFR heads have proven themselves both on the dyno and the track.

nickpohlaandp wrote:

QtrWarrior wrote:...Their opinion is based on experience, NOT  internet "facts" or an interest in selling a certain set of heads

I love how when you come to a new forum everyone assumes you know absolutely nothing about anything. My father used to tell me a few things, and I'll never forget them. First, don't judge a book by it's cover, because you have no idea what it may contain (cliché, I know). Second, opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and most of them stink. I'm not looking for opinions. I'm looking for facts. That's why I said "If anyone can insert more accurate numbers from first hand, real world testing, or if you know the port area at the choke point, please let me know so I can adjust my spreadsheet."

Look guys, I'm not here to debate on who knows more than who on what subject. I'm looking for answers based on unbiased fact. Opinions are not fact. As far as me cutting up a little bit with the whole "I'm calling you out..." business, if you really took that seriously or took offense to that, you need to chill out. This is a forum. I have zero effect on whether your mortgage gets paid, you marriage works out, your car goes faster... nothing. Every forum I've ever been a part of has been a group of guys (and gals) that share their knowledge and rib at each other here and there. It's supposed to be a friendly environment, not a bigger dick contest.

See there is the rub....
Most of this group has been together since the early 2000's, thru a couple of website changes..
This is not a "forum" To us, it is a brotherhood..

nickpohlaandp wrote:

windsor wrote:Have you read this thread yet?:

https://www.429-460.com/t119-cylinder-head-pecking-order

It's a little dated but still applies, except the AFR head is not yet placed in the pecking order due to their newness.

Thanks. Yeah, I think I had seen that in my searching. A buddy of mine has the EX514 heads (aluminum, no iron) and he swears by them. You weren't kidding when you said "a little dated". I didn't look at the original posting date, but as I was reading down the post it said something along the lines of "...the new Kaase SCJ heads and soon to be released P51's...", lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but today, aren't the SCJ's considered to be the very bottom of quality aftermarket heads for the 385 series? And now the P51's aren't quite gone, you can still get them, but there's a wait if you want some. I was talking to Cliff over at Kaase probably about two weeks ago and he let me know they're still available. I guess they're not available en masse though because there's better, cheaper options now.

Someone PM'd me and said there's a guy named Carl (I think) who is on here and he's probably the only one with experience with the AFR's. I wish he'd post some information... if he's around.

the scj's with some back cut on the valves and a little clean up mid flow #s are very good , id take them over my EDDY's . I learned a long time ago when joining here looking at the builds that have been proven out and worst thing i ever did was i got caught up with "I need flow #s at .700-.800 lift" made me realize bigger is not always better .

look at some of those scj head builds and what they make , sure is there a better head out, thats up for debate depending on application being used
Scj heads are on cruisers to race cars that are max effort ...pretty impressive what those heads are capable , p51 are nice as well and great but if you can get a pair of scj used to play with nothing wrong there .

If the P51 are up graded to Ti retainers they are ~ the same money as the TFS A460 which have them standard.

At the end of the day it'll be more about which style casting is better suited to a given application than $s.

5pointslow wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

windsor wrote:Have you read this thread yet?:

https://www.429-460.com/t119-cylinder-head-pecking-order

It's a little dated but still applies, except the AFR head is not yet placed in the pecking order due to their newness.

Thanks. Yeah, I think I had seen that in my searching. A buddy of mine has the EX514 heads (aluminum, no iron) and he swears by them. You weren't kidding when you said "a little dated". I didn't look at the original posting date, but as I was reading down the post it said something along the lines of "...the new Kaase SCJ heads and soon to be released P51's...", lol. Correct me if I'm wrong, but today, aren't the SCJ's considered to be the very bottom of quality aftermarket heads for the 385 series? And now the P51's aren't quite gone, you can still get them, but there's a wait if you want some. I was talking to Cliff over at Kaase probably about two weeks ago and he let me know they're still available. I guess they're not available en masse though because there's better, cheaper options now.

Someone PM'd me and said there's a guy named Carl (I think) who is on here and he's probably the only one with experience with the AFR's. I wish he'd post some information... if he's around.

the scj's with some back cut on the valves and a little clean up mid flow #s are very good , id take them over my EDDY's . I learned a long time ago when joining here looking at the builds that have been proven out and worst thing i ever did was i got caught up with "I need flow #s at .700-.800 lift" made me realize bigger is not always better .

look at some of those scj head builds and what they make , sure is there a better head out, thats up for debate depending on application being used
Scj heads are on cruisers to race cars that are max effort  ...pretty impressive what those heads are capable , p51 are nice as well and great but if you can get a pair of scj used to play with nothing wrong there .

Good observation. There are applications were the SCJ with a back cut intake valve are as good as anything. At around $2,000 a pair.

5pointslow wrote:...I learned a long time ago when joining here looking at the builds that have been proven out and worst thing i ever did was i got caught up with "I need flow #s at .700-.800 lift" made me realize bigger is not always better...

Anyone who hasn't figured that out yet is easy to spot. They're the guys running a 9:1 compression BBC with HUGE rectangle port heads, yet they can't figure out why they just got beat by an Astro Van.

When I research heads, I absolutely want to know what the flow numbers are, but if you ONLY tell me what the flow is a 0.700" lift, that tells me nothing about the head. Ideally I'd like to see flow numbers from 0.100 up to the max lift of the cam I'm planning to run, in 0.050" increments. What I want to see is good LOW lift flow. Without good low lift flow you're going to lose out on power because you will never develop enough port velocity to compensate for what you lack right after the valve opens. You need the air ramming effect.

In the spreadsheet I posted, all of the heads have good low lift flow numbers. Then I look at the exhaust flow. It's easy to see when you compare what the heads offer on the intake vs. the exhaust, the BOSS 9's are going to be a beast, the TF's and AFR's are a very close second, and the SCJ's and P51's fall short quite a bit. Open up the exhaust on the SCJ's or P51's and they'll start to compete with the others.

One of the most important things is still port area though, and nobody seems to talk about it. At least AFR publishes a port area figure, accurate or not, it lets me know they've taken that into consideration. I'm not saying Kaase or TF haven't taken port area into consideration when designing their heads, I'm sure they have, but it would be helpful to the informed buyer to know what it is.

Too many guys get caught up on "flow", and they only see the BIG number. A properly set up head that performs well will have very good low lift flow numbers, because that's where the majority of your intake charge comes from.

QtrWarrior wrote:See  there is the rub....
Most of this group has been together since the early 2000's, thru a couple of website changes..
This is not a "forum"  To us, it is a brotherhood...

Whatever you want to call yourselves is fine, it makes no difference to me. My point is this is an online site open to the public for people who share a common interest. If that's not how you want it to be then go build a clubhouse, make a secret password, and have a blast. Otherwise, when someone comes in asking reasonable questions in a well thought out and articulated manner, there's no need to give him shit because he's not "one of the good 'ol boys". I'm not going to pretend for an instant that I know more about a BBF than any of you, but I can guarantee you one thing, and any of you who says different is a liar.... ALL of you learned by being taught, asking questions, and trial and error. None of you were born with the knowledge you currently have. Share it.

nickpohlaandp wrote:

QtrWarrior wrote:See  there is the rub....
Most of this group has been together since the early 2000's, thru a couple of website changes..
This is not a "forum"  To us, it is a brotherhood...

Whatever you want to call yourselves is fine, it makes no difference to me. My point is this is an online site open to the public for people who share a common interest. If that's not how you want it to be then go build a clubhouse, make a secret password, and have a blast. Otherwise, when someone comes in asking reasonable questions in a well thought out and articulated manner, there's no need to give him shit because he's not "one of the good 'ol boys". I'm not going to pretend for an instant that I know more about a BBF than any of you, but I can guarantee you one thing, and any of you who says different is a liar.... ALL of you learned by being taught, asking questions, and trial and error. None of you were born with the knowledge you currently have. Share it.

you are caught up with intake to exhaust flow and that is rookie mistake with any big block Ford head.

 As Lem has said, it is all about the combination and how and where that head is to be used.

Standard exit location exhaust ports are just not going to flow as well as a raised exhaust port or those with a different architecture port. Same with intake ports ... it is just impossible to even attempt to compare the potential of heads when the port location heights relative to the block deck are different as well as those flange sizes and shapes.

And your complete statement is wrong ... I learned by failing and spending a lot of time and money actually doing some successful and non-successful things with the Big Block Ford engine, NOT asking questions and following other peoples itinerary. People gave me some tips throughout the years which were not asked for. I thought about them sometimes but, I wanted to figure it out by myself and some others have certainly taken that same path.
Case in point ... the SCJ heads from FRPP are some of the BEST heads up to .700" lift for heads with standard intake and exhaust port location.
Go do whatever you want to do and quit asking if you don't like or agree with the answers on here.

"Good judgement comes from experience and experience, well ... that comes from bad judgement", Ben Franklin

rmcomprandy wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:ALL of you learned by being taught, asking questions, and trial and error. None of you were born with the knowledge you currently have. Share it.

I learned by failing and spending a lot of time and money actually doing some successful and non-successful things with the Big Block Ford engine...

Wouldn't you consider that... trial and error?

nickpohlaandp wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:ALL of you learned by being taught, asking questions, and trial and error. None of you were born with the knowledge you currently have. Share it.

I learned by failing and spending a lot of time and money actually doing some successful and non-successful things with the Big Block Ford engine...

Wouldn't you consider that... trial and error?

That was PART of your statement ... not the COMPLETE statement.

Have a nice day, I through with this thread. After all, by your standards, I'm just a liar anyway.

rmcomprandy wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:ALL of you learned by being taught, asking questions, and trial and error. None of you were born with the knowledge you currently have. Share it.

I learned by failing and spending a lot of time and money actually doing some successful and non-successful things with the Big Block Ford engine...

Wouldn't you consider that... trial and error?

That was PART of your statement ... not the COMPLETE statement.

Have a nice day, I through with this thread. After all, by your standards, I'm just a liar anyway.

I don't think I'd classify you as a liar. I might say you're too proud or arrogant to say that you didn't do everything by yourself. Everyone learns from someone else. It's human nature. Whether you're willing to accept that fact and admit it or not, it's the truth. Great people who have done great things have done so by taking an existing idea and making it better. That is history. You didn't invent the wheel, you're using it. You didn't invent the BBF, you've made it better. Now whether you've made it better from knowledge you gained in various physics and fluid dynamics classes you took in college, watching master engine builders and getting ideas from them, trying out your own ideas and failing until you got it right, or a combination of all of that and more, unless you've invented an engine that uses something other than pushrods and poppet valves, all you've done is make something better.

I honestly look up to people like you because you have knowledge that I would like to have myself. Inversely, I pity you for being so arrogant to think you have done something all on your own, completely without outside influence of any kind. That level of arrogance, unfortunately, is not hard to come by, but it's easy to spot.

BBFTorino wrote:Nick, do you have any pics of your buddy's Torino Cobra??

Here you go man, sorry about that. I got carried away with someone pounding their chest so hard I totally forgot about this. This is a (dirty) all original 1970 Torino Cobra 429... well it's not all original anymore. It now has the SCJ heads, Weiand intake, new Holley 4150, HFT Lunati cam, and a set of Hooker long tubes that were a PITA to install, but I got it done. Right now he's driving it around with open headers and turn downs. It's obnoxiously loud, which is what he said he wanted, but I can't imagine he'll keep it like that for long. When he left my house I told him I'd give him 24 hours before he got pulled over for the noise. I was WAAAAAAAY off. It only took 45 minutes. That didn't seem to deter him though. The officer just gave him a warning and he still shows no signs of wanting to put exhaust on it.

IMO....the A460 head is not ideal for your application unless you plan to spray it pretty heavy. My experience with tfs A460 heads are right in line with the numbers they advertise BUT unlike the others listed they are capable of much more. Excluding the AFR which I know nothing about personally. As others have said the SCJ head is IMO a very good choice. Now the other chest beating, bigger dick comments and such will not get you anywhere. The knowledge you're looking for is definitely here but it didn't come freely to those folks and demanding it is a sure way to not get it.

cool40 wrote:IMO....the A460 head is not ideal for your application unless you plan to spray it pretty heavy. My experience with tfs A460 heads are right in line with the numbers they advertise BUT unlike the others listed they are capable of much more. Excluding the AFR which I know nothing about personally. As others have said the SCJ head is IMO a very good choice. Now the other chest beating, bigger dick comments and such will not get you anywhere. The knowledge you're looking for is definitely here but it didn't come freely to those folks and demanding it is a sure way to not get it.    

I agree with this.  I believe in an earlier comment you mentioned keeping lift to the .630 range, and with that limiting factor you wouldn’t realize any advantages of the A460’s.  The SCJ head is tailor made for that application, in my novice opinion.  With very minor work they move a lot of air at mid lift.  There was an old thread on 460ford.com that documented a ton of the information you are looking for on all the heads mentioned in this thread except the AFR’s.
http://www.460ford.com/forum/#/topics/103055
Read thru here

cool40 wrote:IMO....the A460 head is not ideal for your application unless you plan to spray it pretty heavy. My experience with tfs A460 heads are right in line with the numbers they advertise BUT unlike the others listed they are capable of much more. Excluding the AFR which I know nothing about personally. As others have said the SCJ head is IMO a very good choice. Now the other chest beating, bigger dick comments and such will not get you anywhere. The knowledge you're looking for is definitely here but it didn't come freely to those folks and demanding it is a sure way to not get it.    

Keeping the lift to under .650 is silly ,but why would you say the A460 is not for him,as with any car guy the build on what they have down the road,since hes starting with a blank piece of paper why not?




If you need NOS to make your A HEADED deal run you need a new engine guy