Oiling modifications... and how much power?

BOSS 429 wrote:

cool40 wrote:IMO....the A460 head is not ideal for your application unless you plan to spray it pretty heavy. My experience with tfs A460 heads are right in line with the numbers they advertise BUT unlike the others listed they are capable of much more. Excluding the AFR which I know nothing about personally. As others have said the SCJ head is IMO a very good choice. Now the other chest beating, bigger dick comments and such will not get you anywhere. The knowledge you're looking for is definitely here but it didn't come freely to those folks and demanding it is a sure way to not get it.    

Keeping the lift to under .650 is silly ,but why would you say the A460 is not for him,as with any car guy the build on what they have down the road,since hes starting with a blank piece of paper why not?




If you need NOS to make your A HEADED deal run you need a new engine guy

he wants a street friendly 10.1 compression engine. Did you read that part? IMO .... The SCJ would be best but I didn't look into the future or read his mind and think about building on what he buys now. As far as needing NOS to make my A HEADED deal run? I don't need it and don't run it how about your boss headed deal ?

cool40 wrote:IMO....the A460 head is not ideal for your application unless you plan to spray it pretty heavy....

cool40 wrote:...As far as needing NOS to make my A HEADED deal run? I don't need it and don't run it...

BOSS 429 wrote:...If you need NOS to make your A HEADED deal run you need a new engine guy

cool40, you're confusing me. So you don't need nitrous but I would? Or are we talking about different A heads. I see "A head" in one of my threads and I think Trick Flow. I can only assume there are other "A" heads out there?

cool40 wrote:...My experience with tfs A460 heads are right in line with the numbers they advertise BUT unlike the others listed they are capable of much more. Excluding the AFR which I know nothing about personally...

I think I shouldn't have even put the SCJ's on there. I only put them on there as a reference, but they aren't even on my radar of heads I'd consider, so I'll have to take the blame for them even being brought into the conversation. Out of the box they just aren't enough head, and it would take considerable work to get them to really perform. At that point I'd have so much money invested in a set of SCJ's that I would've been better off going with one of the others from the get go (which I plan to do). IF I were going to consider running a Kaase head, it would either be the P51 or BOSS 9, but I'm more focused on the Trick Flow or AFR. I have nothing against Kaase, I think his heads are great, and I'd never dispute the fact that they'll make power. With that said, the P51's still leave a bit to be desired out of the box, and the BOSS 9's are just more $ than I care to spend. I would LOVE to see Kaase do that same comparison he did on his 521 with the P51's vs. the BOSS 9's, but instead of the P51's use the Trick Flows. That would be a really cool test to see the outcome of.

BOSS 429 wrote:Keeping the lift to under .650 is silly...

I'm looking back trying to figure out where the 0.650 lift comment comes from, and I'm not seeing it, help me out if I'm missing something. Regardless, I agree. I never build an engine with a particular camshaft in mind. The camshaft, for me, is kind of like the last piece of the puzzle. That's what's going to make everything work together to the best of it's ability. Limiting yourself to x.xxx amount of lift before you've even turned the first wrench is silly. The only time I could see where that might be a necessity is some classes of racing that limit you on certain specs.

Oooh, I just found it. Back when I originally posted up that spreadsheet with the different heads listed I said "If you take a look at what I was able to compile for advertised numbers, you can see that the AFR's are very close to the TF on intake flow, and outflow the TF on exhaust flow all the way up to 0.650" lift." I was just making an observation. I wasn't saying that I'm limiting myself there. Sorry if that confused anyone.

cool40 wrote:...Now the other chest beating, bigger dick comments and such will not get you anywhere. The knowledge you're looking for is definitely here but it didn't come freely to those folks and demanding it is a sure way to not get it.

I'm reading back in this thread looking for where I demanded anything. I'm fairly certain I haven't. I did, however, react when someone was being an asshat. Throughout this entire thread I've ASKED for input. This whole thing started with some oiling questions and has snowballed out of control into a cylinder head thread. Still, when I posted up something that obviously had a lot of thought and consideration put into it and I get a reply such as "Your data has a lot of errors.", it's frustrating to say the least. If that's the truth, and you know it to be the truth, why not provide some information to support your statement? That's like me saying the sky is blue and someone comes back with "no it's not". Um, well, ok. I disagree, but I'll be glad to stand here and listen to you explain why you think otherwise. If you do a good enough job you might have me thinking the sky isn't blue before our conversation is over.

5pointslow pointed out one of the worst mistakes anyone can make in building an engine earlier in the thread when he said, "...worst thing i ever did was i got caught up with "I need flow #s at .700-.800 lift" made me realize bigger is not always better". He's 100% correct. Flow at max lift doesn't do squat for your if your low and mid lift flow numbers suck. I actually went on to comment on his post and explain why I fully agree with him. The last thing I said in my reply was "Too many guys get caught up on "flow", and they only see the BIG number. A properly set up head that performs well will have very good low lift flow numbers, because that's where the majority of your intake charge comes from."

I'm not here to argue, I'm here to learn, but if someone makes a statement that goes against conventional thought or the laws of physics and fluid dynamics, it would really help to back it up with an explanation.

I have a completely different kind of car than you that runs plenty fast enough for me without NOS. RICH was commenting on the need for nos to make your A HEADED deal run you must need a different engine builder,that's who my statement was directed at in case you can't tell. The A460 head has lots of potential as I said before and you have clearly made up your mind as to which one you want so go for it. Rich would be a good guy to deal with for that build or if you go for the AFR Carl probably knows the most about them.

OK, cleared up on the previous stuff

cool40 wrote:...you have clearly made up your mind as to which one you want so go for it...

Seriously... I still have no idea, lol. It'll be between the TF and the AFR, but I probably won't know which until the day I pick up the phone to buy them. Until that day comes it'll ping pong around in my brain incessantly.

A460 - proven performer, several intakes and pistons available.

Don"t forget the SVO B460 head small port that can be to the A size or any cross section you need

I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

nickpohlaandp wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

You are sooo upset that you posted YB [asshole place] 5 times about BBF yesterday.

I'm not gonna call you a troll but, your actions would indicate that could be the case.

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

You are sooo upset that you posted YB [asshole place] 5 times about BBF yesterday.

I'm not gonna call you a troll but, your actions would indicate that could be the case.  

Are you blind? I said the FIRST time I posted there. Since then I've learned who the assholes are, I've gotten good info from some people who are willow no to help, and I talk to them. So, you wanna cyber stalk me, have fun. Go look at the dates.

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

You are sooo upset that you posted YB [asshole place] 5 times about BBF yesterday.

I'm not gonna call you a troll but, your actions would indicate that could be the case.  

Are you blind? I said the FIRST time I posted there. Since then I've learned who the assholes are, I've gotten good info from some people who are willow no to help, and I talk to them. So, you wanna cyber stalk me, have fun. Go look at the dates.

I am no longer blind to the fact that you are a TROLL!!

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

You are sooo upset that you posted YB [asshole place] 5 times about BBF yesterday.

I'm not gonna call you a troll but, your actions would indicate that could be the case.  

Are you blind? I said the FIRST time I posted there. Since then I've learned who the assholes are, I've gotten good info from some people who are willow no to help, and I talk to them. So, you wanna cyber stalk me, have fun. Go look at the dates.

I am no longer blind to the fact that you are a TROLL!!

, WOW

BOSS 429 wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

You are sooo upset that you posted YB [asshole place] 5 times about BBF yesterday.

I'm not gonna call you a troll but, your actions would indicate that could be the case.  

Are you blind? I said the FIRST time I posted there. Since then I've learned who the assholes are, I've gotten good info from some people who are willow no to help, and I talk to them. So, you wanna cyber stalk me, have fun. Go look at the dates.

I am no longer blind to the fact that you are a TROLL!!

, WOW

I'm happy for you now that you have found your soul mate.

Lem Evans wrote:

BOSS 429 wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

You are sooo upset that you posted YB [asshole place] 5 times about BBF yesterday.

I'm not gonna call you a troll but, your actions would indicate that could be the case.  

Are you blind? I said the FIRST time I posted there. Since then I've learned who the assholes are, I've gotten good info from some people who are willow no to help, and I talk to them. So, you wanna cyber stalk me, have fun. Go look at the dates.

I am no longer blind to the fact that you are a TROLL!!

, WOW

I'm happy for you now that you have found your soul mate.

If nothing else, you're amusing. If I turned and tucked tail every time someone was an asshole on a forum... well I probably wouldn't post anywhere. Thing is, people see threads like this, hopefully get a laugh, and the ones who are actually out to help, they help. The assholes tend to stay away after a while. This is stuff you learn in grade school.

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

Lem Evans wrote:

nickpohlaandp wrote:

BBFTorino wrote:I hope this place does not turn into another YellowBullet. That place sucks, and I refuse to go there!!

Funny. The first time I posted over there the majority of the replies I got were unhelpful and negative coming from a bunch of self- righteous assholes. Really made me not like the place for a long time. I too hope this forum doesn't turn into that.

You are sooo upset that you posted YB [asshole place] 5 times about BBF yesterday.

I'm not gonna call you a troll but, your actions would indicate that could be the case.  

Are you blind? I said the FIRST time I posted there. Since then I've learned who the assholes are, I've gotten good info from some people who are willow no to help, and I talk to them. So, you wanna cyber stalk me, have fun. Go look at the dates.

I am no longer blind to the fact that you are a TROLL!!

no steak dinner for you!

cool40 wrote:no steak dinner for you!

I love it! That's good stuff right there!!![/quote]

This is better entertainment than the movie I just watched with my wife. LOL. Don't stop now

Seriously though. My 2 cents is the A heads shouldn't even be on your list for a street car. It says plainly on tfs website they're designed for big inch engines with a minimum bore of 4.5" which is why they provide flow test at that bore.   If they were really wanting to fluff the numbers wouldn't you think they'd put them on 4.625 bore? That's really what they're made for isn't it? If you like tfs product the 325cc might be a good choice.

I don't remember you saying what cubic inch this is to be.

stanger68 wrote:Seriously though. My 2 cents is the A heads shouldn't even be on your list for a street car.  It says plainly on tfs website they're designed for big inch engines with a minimum bore of 4.5" which is why they provide flow test at that bore.   If they were really wanting to fluff the numbers wouldn't you think they'd put them on 4.625 bore? That's really what they're made for isn't it? If you like tfs product the 325cc might be a good choice.

I don't remember you saying what cubic inch this is to be.

521-553". I'm still torn between the 4.300 and 4.500 stroke. With me wanting to use it mostly on the street I'll probably end up going with the 4.500 and end up with a 553. I really like the TFS A460 heads, but the one thing that is making me shy away from them vs. the AFR's is how much the port geometry is changed. 1" raised intake and 1.5" raised exhaust... that's a lot, and it limits me to intake options. I think the TFS heads would probably net me a higher peak number on a dyno, but I feel like the AFR would still deliver great power and likely a flatter power curve, which would be really nice for a street driven car.

Why are you posting on this or any forum?
It sounds like you already know all of the answers - clearly You are the expert!

68galaxie wrote:Why are you posting on this or any forum?
It sounds like you already know all of the answers - clearly You are the expert!

Asking questions then disputing the answers won't continue on for very long.

If one thinks there a limit on intakes, then there is a limit. I know it"s not true.

DanH wrote:If one thinks there a limit on intakes, then there is a limit.  I know it"s not true.

Technically you're only limited by your imagination and budget, so I should've been a bit more specific on that one. I was referring to being limited on intake choice without calling up some place like Hogans and dropping a big chunk of change.

I should have said cash over the counter. There is several more intakes that can be used on A type heads. Cost in the TF range even less. The A heads the leave room for more power. In the future if you wish.

DanH wrote:I should have said cash over the counter. There is several more intakes that can be used on A type heads. Cost in the TF range even less.                            The A heads the leave room for more power. In the future if you wish.

I did not know that. I was thinking that you were stuck with the TF intake or a custom made deal if you went with the TF heads. As far as making the car faster in the future, this particular project will be a one and done deal for me. I have the goal of a 9 second street car, all motor, that I can drive wherever I want. I know some will say I could do it easier or more reliably with a turbo, but I just want a big block for this.

Once this car is done, if I want to go faster I'll build something more along the lines of a dedicated track car.

Ha! Maybe I'll win the lotto and just build two... I can dream

Edit: we are talking about the TF A460 heads, right, not the Power Ports?