Total Seal piston rings

in regards to the gapless top rings ,can you run vertical gas ports on the top of the piston?

BBFTorino wrote:Has anyone tried the new gas ported rings from Total Seal?
Just wondering about how they compare to the top gapless rings that I run currently.
My compression tests are very good, and very even among all cylinders, so I am satisfied with the ring pack I'm using.
But maybe I will try the gas ported ones in a different build. Just wanted to know if anyone else has any input on them.

Yes, and they work well. But it makes far more sense to pick the correct ring width and gas port the pistons.

hbstang wrote:in regards to the gapless top rings ,can you run vertical gas ports on the top of the piston?

Sure.

BBFTorino wrote:But then you have to periodically clean out those gas ports because they get clogged up with carbon.

Gas porting pistons goes hand in hand with high compression and race gas. Pump gas/low compression builds should stay away from gas porting. E85 will be good with gas porting because its clean. Clogging up the slots on a gas ported piston ring isnt likely to happen. Gas ported rings arent going to be as effective as ported pistons.

BBFTorino wrote:But then you have to periodically clean out those gas ports because they get clogged up with carbon.

As opposed to replacing what is a relatively costly ring set?

My understanding is that gas ports in rings don’t get clogged with carbon. If the holes in the pistons are closed they will only n quadrants leading to unusual ring wear as Mark stated. Another option might be to use larger port holes in the piston. Best option is to use better gas and raise the compression. Pump gas deals are such dirty packages.

I haven't seen gas port clogging on sure enough racing engines.

I was told by one of the piston manufacturers several years back they did not recommend ported pistons for street engines because of the high load on the cylinder walls will prematurely wear out. The horsepower gain is minimal. They would only recommend ported pistons for all out high end race engines that are hunting every single once of power.

A few years ago, we didn't have the rings available we have now.

Lem Evans wrote:I haven't seen gas port clogging on sure enough racing engines.

Ya ain’t running pump gas either, the stuff is dirty as hell.

Mark O'Neal wrote:A few years ago, we didn't have the rings available we have now.

The OEM’s have made a lot of the tech affordable because of high production.

Mark O'Neal wrote:A few years ago, we didn't have the rings available we have now.

The OEM’s have made a lot of the tech affordable because of high production.

Gas ported rings have been around for a while now, used mainly to get around "no gas ported pistons" rules on race cars. I've used them on several builds but I'm not convinced it isn't as much marketing as anything else. I think they're a good option for a guy looking for that last little bit of power but already has pistons or doesn't want gas ports in them.  They won't make as much power as vertical gas ports, they seem (in testing) to make a little more power than horizontal gas ports. Total Seal is now making these rings for Summit, selling under the Summit brand name. I see no reason not to run them if you have the option.

BBFTorino wrote:Has anyone tried the new gas ported rings from Total Seal?
Just wondering about how they compare to the top gapless rings that I run currently.
My compression tests are very good, and very even among all cylinders, so I am satisfied with the ring pack I'm using.
But maybe I will try the gas ported ones in a different build. Just wanted to know if anyone else has any input on them.

Compression test really doesn't tell you much. Ring seal is a dynamic thing effected by a lot of factors. A blow by meter will tell you more of the story and from what I hear, the difference between a well sealed up engine with conventional rings vs the same engine with gas ported rings is very little. Blow-by is the main "sales pitch"...better ring seal=less blow by, makes more power, keeps oil cleaner, engine lasts longer, yada yada. I think I would run the gas ported rings before I'd run a gapless. Not sure if you can get gas ported gapless yet or not. Most of the engine builders I know don't bother with gapless rings.

Scott Foxwell wrote:Gas ported rings have been around for a while now, used mainly to get around "no gas ported pistons" rules on race cars. I've used them on several builds but I'm not convinced it isn't as much marketing as anything else. I think they're a good option for a guy looking for that last little bit of power but already has pistons or doesn't want gas ports in them.  They won't make as much power as vertical gas ports, they seem (in testing) to make a little more power than horizontal gas ports. Total Seal is now making these rings for Summit, selling under the Summit brand name. I see no reason not to run them if you have the option.

I think it depends on the tension of the ring set and the cylinder pressure at rpm. Also, generic piston back spacing seems to have more of a tolerance since the metric stuff doesn't have a standard radial dimension. So a 5/64 D-Wall cast set...no so much. A .9 .0 3.0 metric set with much lower radial wall dimensions would likely see more of a gain.

I reckon.

Mark O'Neal wrote:

Scott Foxwell wrote:Gas ported rings have been around for a while now, used mainly to get around "no gas ported pistons" rules on race cars. I've used them on several builds but I'm not convinced it isn't as much marketing as anything else. I think they're a good option for a guy looking for that last little bit of power but already has pistons or doesn't want gas ports in them.  They won't make as much power as vertical gas ports, they seem (in testing) to make a little more power than horizontal gas ports. Total Seal is now making these rings for Summit, selling under the Summit brand name. I see no reason not to run them if you have the option.

I think it depends on the tension of the ring set and the cylinder pressure at rpm. Also, generic piston back spacing seems to have more of a tolerance since the metric stuff doesn't have a standard radial dimension. So a 5/64 D-Wall cast set...no so much. A .9 .0 3.0 metric set with much lower radial wall dimensions would likely see more of a gain.

I reckon.

I reckon.
I don't think gas porting a 5/64 ring set is going to be real high on the list although I have to chuckle...Skip White touts his "custom" Wiseco pistons that he sells. LOL...yeah, they're "custom" because he has Wiseco cut them for 5/64 rings that he probably gets for $5 a set. Maybe he can add gas porting as an option.
I don't have any back-to-back on these but I did have a TS 1mm top ring gas ported for an FE build. Had a Mahle 1.5mm ring done as well for another FE build. Hard to quantify the gas porting in the results. The other thing is, the better the machine work, the less effect this sort of thing will have. On the other hand, gas porting of any kind won't make a stink of difference if the machine work is bad.

Scott Foxwell wrote:

Mark O'Neal wrote:

Scott Foxwell wrote:Gas ported rings have been around for a while now, used mainly to get around "no gas ported pistons" rules on race cars. I've used them on several builds but I'm not convinced it isn't as much marketing as anything else. I think they're a good option for a guy looking for that last little bit of power but already has pistons or doesn't want gas ports in them.  They won't make as much power as vertical gas ports, they seem (in testing) to make a little more power than horizontal gas ports. Total Seal is now making these rings for Summit, selling under the Summit brand name. I see no reason not to run them if you have the option.

I think it depends on the tension of the ring set and the cylinder pressure at rpm. Also, generic piston back spacing seems to have more of a tolerance since the metric stuff doesn't have a standard radial dimension. So a 5/64 D-Wall cast set...no so much. A .9 .0 3.0 metric set with much lower radial wall dimensions would likely see more of a gain.

I reckon.

I reckon.
I don't think gas porting a 5/64 ring set is going to be real high on the list although I have to chuckle...Skip White touts his "custom" Wiseco pistons that he sells. LOL...yeah, they're "custom" because he has Wiseco cut them for 5/64 rings that he probably gets for $5 a set. Maybe he can add gas porting as an option.
I don't have any back-to-back on these but I did have a TS 1mm top ring gas ported for an FE build. Had a Mahle 1.5mm ring done as well for another FE build. Hard to quantify the gas porting in the results. The other thing is, the better the machine work, the less effect this sort of thing will have. On the other hand, gas porting of any kind won't make a stink of difference if the machine work is bad.

LOL....It was a comparison, not a recommendation.

The last conversation I had with that guy contained vocabulary that is not used on this board....in higher than actually required volume.

It was fun for me.

Mark O'Neal wrote:

Scott Foxwell wrote:

Mark O'Neal wrote:

Scott Foxwell wrote:Gas ported rings have been around for a while now, used mainly to get around "no gas ported pistons" rules on race cars. I've used them on several builds but I'm not convinced it isn't as much marketing as anything else. I think they're a good option for a guy looking for that last little bit of power but already has pistons or doesn't want gas ports in them.  They won't make as much power as vertical gas ports, they seem (in testing) to make a little more power than horizontal gas ports. Total Seal is now making these rings for Summit, selling under the Summit brand name. I see no reason not to run them if you have the option.

I think it depends on the tension of the ring set and the cylinder pressure at rpm. Also, generic piston back spacing seems to have more of a tolerance since the metric stuff doesn't have a standard radial dimension. So a 5/64 D-Wall cast set...no so much. A .9 .0 3.0 metric set with much lower radial wall dimensions would likely see more of a gain.

I reckon.

I reckon.
I don't think gas porting a 5/64 ring set is going to be real high on the list although I have to chuckle...Skip White touts his "custom" Wiseco pistons that he sells. LOL...yeah, they're "custom" because he has Wiseco cut them for 5/64 rings that he probably gets for $5 a set. Maybe he can add gas porting as an option.
I don't have any back-to-back on these but I did have a TS 1mm top ring gas ported for an FE build. Had a Mahle 1.5mm ring done as well for another FE build. Hard to quantify the gas porting in the results. The other thing is, the better the machine work, the less effect this sort of thing will have. On the other hand, gas porting of any kind won't make a stink of difference if the machine work is bad.

LOL....It was a comparison, not a recommendation.

The last conversation I had with that guy contained vocabulary that is not used on this board....in higher than actually required volume.

It was fun for me.

Ha ha...I can imagine.

tell me is there any benefit to vertcal gas ports with a .043 top gapless ring in a 14-1 638?will be using a vacuum pump at least,maybe dry sump.lets here some opinions!

hbstang wrote:tell me is there any benefit to vertcal gas ports with a .043 top gapless ring in a 14-1 638?will be using a vacuum pump at least,maybe dry sump.lets here some opinions!

Yes.