E85 fuel: Is it practical to run?

Here in Tucson, AZ there are about 8-10 gas stations that sell E85 fuel (most notably one right next to the drag strip). I was wondering if it would be practical to run 13:1 CR and iron heads with E85 or if I would just be throwing my money away both at the pump AND on my build? Any info you guys can help me out with would be greatly appreciated

If you have it avaliable its an option, IMO 13:1 may be a little much for it, I'd stick in the 11.5-12:1 range.

The main problem with E85 fuel is it's chemical content consistancy. The restrictions for E85 are not very close, as anywhere from 65% to 85% alcohol content is allowed by the federal government. It will be different depending upon the time of year and what exactly THAT company wished to use for THEIR chemical make-up.
This probably isn't a problem with the constantly changing tune-ups in a multi fuel injection vehicle but, can be a problem with a carbureted engine with preset ignition timing.
104 R+M Octane should be good up to 12.6/1 compression ratio with a street camshaft though. The 425 Cadilac engine of the late sixties had that compression ratio during that time of high octane pump premium gasoline.

I have been bracket racing with it and I like it, if you don't know how to tune a carb it is not for you. I check the mixture and set up the carb to it. I purchase it by the drum which I take to the station and fill up this summer I was getting 92% from the pump which I had to richin it up. I also use a LM2 to watch the lambda. Air bleeds very important in tuning. I made over 300 passes this year went a lot of rounds and finish tied for 4th in super pro @ Muncie Dragway I will continue to use it as long as its avail. I run a 466 with flat tops with DOVE heads. I would like to kick my CR up a little to 13.1 I think it would like it. It runs a lot like Alky runs cool, and consistant. It cut my fuel bill by more than half i was runing gas which went to 6.80 gal here, E-85 1.85 you will use more.

BigDog,
Do you have to jet up for it on the carb? If so, approx how much?

I have a 12:1 545ci. I've been running 50% 100LL avgas and 50% 91 (best I can get here) on the street and VP110 at the strip. Seems to work well but its all pricey. Looking at other options...

Would you need an alcohol carb to run e-85? How about fuel pumps, the volume required would be much higher, right?

Kevin
Still Stuck In Iraq, Now In Tall'Afar

You can send your holley 4 barrel to ProSystems and he will tune it for you to run the E85.

it takes aprox 30% more fuel by volume to run e-85 than it does to run gas, as randy said the key is to know what the heck your really buying at the e-85 pump. with a test kit and some premium pump gas on hand 12.5 - 13 to 1 doable, the carb really needs to be setup from scratch to run e-85, another option is to take a alky carb and jet it down little bit and adjust air bleeds to suit

I found this searching the web for info:
FWIW

Gas versus E85 Metering
Here’s a basic comparison on what the metering changes are from gasoline to E85 in a 750-cfm carburetor. Specifications courtesy of Barry Grant.
PART: GAS: E85:
Main jets 76/83 85/93
Idle air bleeds 70 63
High-speed air bleed 39 29
Booster legs 160 169
Squirter 31 35
Needle/seat 110 130
Idle feed restrictor 39 36

Looks to be a jetting up of about 10, air bleeds down by 10, ect. to try as a rough baseline and go from there. Of course the fuel pump, lines and gaskets have to be up to task. I'd think a better option would be a carb set up for it by a pro if you have the $. I might try this on my ride this summer some weekend I'm bored and see how the car responds.

4thHorseman, You have some ok spec's there but every engine is different and the % of ethanol is going to make a difference also. I am bracket racing so consistancy is the name of the game. Seems I went up 10 from gas on the mains and 26 A/B and adjust the bleeds to the % of ethanol. One of the best websites is ran by Heath Daniel, reaceone85.com. He is pretty sharp on this stuff. I bought a LM2 to read fuel ratio's that told me how to set the carb up very well. As far as the pump and gaskets, it will be fine as long as you can supply enough fuel, I spray my bowl gaskets with WD40 before installing this seems to help when removing them. Do you have the process the check the fuel? I found interesting the last of the year I changed from a C6 to a PG and had to re-jet and change the bleeds because the RPM diff.

I don't have anything yet. Just reading up on it at this point. I know there is a small, $15 device to seperate the alcohol from the gas with water to get a spec on the %. Seems to be pretty important to check this constantly. I will look into that web site. Thanks for the info.

You have a PM

racerk_2000 wrote:Would you need an alcohol carb to run e-85? How about fuel pumps, the volume required would be much higher, right?

Kevin
Still Stuck In Iraq, Now In Tall'Afar

Yes, your carb needs to be alcohol compliant, as does the rest of the fuel system. The cost difference between the alky compatible components is small, until you price fuel line, and it is still a minimal difference. You will need a pump capable of supplying more volume, and I think the 30% number is a reasonable estimate. If the fuel doesn't work out for you, you have a little room to grow with the fuel pump. Carl... CarsbyCarl... has been doing a bunch of research and work with E85, it might be a good time to talk to him if you are thinking of swapping fuels.

longroofracer wrote:

racerk_2000 wrote:Would you need an alcohol carb to run e-85? How about fuel pumps, the volume required would be much higher, right?

Kevin
Still Stuck In Iraq, Now In Tall'Afar

Yes, your carb needs to be alcohol compliant, as does the rest of the fuel system. The cost difference between the alky compatible components is small, until you price fuel line, and it is still a minimal difference. You will need a pump capable of supplying more volume, and I think the 30% number is a reasonable estimate. If the fuel doesn't work out for you, you have a little room to grow with the fuel pump. Carl... CarsbyCarl... has been doing a bunch of research and work with E85, it might be a good time to talk to him if you are thinking of swapping fuels.

I have ran E-85 for two years now and it is not as harsh as alky, been there done that, E-85 has gas in it, does not attack as alky does. There are four things E-85 and alky have in common , starting in cold weather sucks, runs cool (have to run lean out valve to warm engine up), its more consistant than gas and
its cheaper than race gas
JMHO

BIGDOG466 wrote:4thHorseman, You have some ok spec's there but every engine is different and the % of ethanol is going to make a difference also. I am bracket racing so consistancy is the name of the game. Seems I went up 10 from gas on the mains and 26 A/B and adjust the bleeds to the % of ethanol. One of the best websites is ran by Heath Daniel, reaceone85.com. He is pretty sharp on this stuff. I bought a LM2 to read fuel ratio's that told me how to set the carb up very well. As far as the pump and gaskets, it will be fine as long as you can supply enough fuel, I spray my bowl gaskets with WD40 before installing this seems to help when removing them. Do you have the process the check the fuel? I found interesting the last of the year I changed from a C6 to a PG and had to re-jet and change the bleeds because the RPM diff.

Is this supposed to be http://raceone85.com ?

Do you have some info on this LM2 you have mentioned a couple times?

What do you recommend for testing the fuel?

I plan to run E85 on my new engine that is in process, and need to get myself educated. Carl has been a big help, but I do need to do some footwork myself lol. Have you posted info on your combo that I missed somewhere?

Thanks

longroofracer wrote:

BIGDOG466 wrote:4thHorseman, You have some ok spec's there but every engine is different and the % of ethanol is going to make a difference also. I am bracket racing so consistancy is the name of the game. Seems I went up 10 from gas on the mains and 26 A/B and adjust the bleeds to the % of ethanol. One of the best websites is ran by Heath Daniel, reaceone85.com. He is pretty sharp on this stuff. I bought a LM2 to read fuel ratio's that told me how to set the carb up very well. As far as the pump and gaskets, it will be fine as long as you can supply enough fuel, I spray my bowl gaskets with WD40 before installing this seems to help when removing them. Do you have the process the check the fuel? I found interesting the last of the year I changed from a C6 to a PG and had to re-jet and change the bleeds because the RPM diff.

Is this supposed to be http://raceone85.com ?

Do you have some info on this LM2 you have mentioned a couple times?

What do you recommend for testing the fuel?

I plan to run E85 on my new engine that is in process, and need to get myself educated. Carl has been a big help, but I do need to do some footwork myself lol. Have you posted info on your combo that I missed somewhere?

Thanks

http://raceone85.com is correct sorry for that, I use the lambda reading on my Innovate LM2 with one O2 sensor runs best around .79/.80 lambda.
I am running a 466 with dove heads 950 quick fuel carb in a 3770 lb w/driver 69 Mach 1, PG Trans
PM me your E-mail addy and I will send you the testing fuel process.

pm sent.
Thanks

longroofracer wrote:pm sent.
Thanks

Sent it

Got it... looks super easy.
Thanks for the info.

After reading through everything here I am planning on switching out my fuel system once the 460 is ready to go in. Hoping to put in a 20-30 gallon fuel cell in place of the old steel gas tank and use the old fuel lines as a template for larger stainless steel fuel lines. Still not quite sure if I should go with a mechanical fuel pump or electric. I figure a 140 gph pump made for E85 (or alchy) should keep the carb fed.

You get the tune right you will like it. Start out at around 34 on the timing.