The good, the bad, and the ugly

First off, keep in mind that I am 15 so some parts are paid for by the pops. I have no say in some cases, but that's more rare. I have been getting criticism on the Eagle crank. Not complaining or anything, I now know why I was told not to use them, and couldn't agree more. The good is that we got the money for some parts so my dad went the extra mile and bought forged KB pistons instead of the Hyperuetectic ones. Sweet!

The bad is that there was a crank we were going to buy that was an OEM for $100, but there were way too many "ifs" with it. I didn't know the year and what not so I didn't know if it would work. The ugly is that my dad turned around and bought the Eagle crank after all of the stuff that I told him about them. $245 for the crank and then it has to go to the grinders which will be another $100.

I personally didn't know anything about the OEM crank, but I didn't even get to go look at it or talk to the guy. It ticks me off. But the way my dad looks at it is, since there's an Eagle crank and rod setup in the 351w, it should be fine. He can be VERY irrational and doesn't think things through. He can never really tell me what the engine builder said when he talked to him on the way home. Then he'll tell me one thing then i talk to the builder about it, which it ends up being something totally different so I say to my dad "you were telling me he said this" which he then goes "No! I never said that". Which I know he did. Back to the story, what should I do now?

He who PAYS for the parts has the prerogative to choose whatever parts he wants; whether they are the right thing to do or not.

well make sure you have it checked and go for it,

Randy

It's not the end of the world, no one says all Eagle crankshafts are flawed! (I don't think anyone did ) Now that you know the problem areas you can be aware and make sure the machine shop checks it over real good.

Thanks guys. I just freaked out when he bought it because of the lower quality and the higher cost. I've heard that forged pistons can cause a stock rod to break due to the excess weight. The rods are ground as you know, I'm sure this is a false statement. As I have been really impressed with what OEM parts can take. Any ideas what quench I should be looking into for it? I'm going to run 5500 rpm's max and as a shift point also, street/strip. Pump gas motor. I'm really exited about this build, its coming along faster and faster (the engine that is). Just a thought, if you bored the cylinders, wouldn't you want to do something with the heads so they matched up to the bigger bore?

bb429power,
First of all, I would like to commend you for being into a Hobby that you can enjoy w/Dad. My dad was paralized when I was a child but,he raised me and my brothers teaching us to do our own mech. work. It is a special time in your life that you won't realize until later on in life. Cherish these time w/Dad,and I know he's happy that you guy's are doing these things together. This is a great bunch and as good as they get when it comes to a BBF.You sound like you have a good and knowledgable head on your shoulders. Stay w/it son, and you will go far in life.

Most folks here say to go with 0 deck. This gets the quench where it needs to be and gives the engine more detonation resistance. It bumps to TQ a bunch too!!

It seems to be hard to get a machinist to go to 0 deck, they want to just "clean it up". You will need to assemble the four corner pistons/rods to the crank and check all four corners for deck hieght, then you can tell your machinist how much to take off.

Bill

bb429power wrote:First off, keep in mind that I am 15 so some parts are paid for by the pops. I have no say in some cases, but that's more rare. I have been getting criticism on the Eagle crank. Not complaining or anything, I now know why I was told not to use them, and couldn't agree more. The good is that we got the money for some parts so my dad went the extra mile and bought forged KB pistons instead of the Hyperuetectic ones. Sweet!

What did you hear about the eagle crank?

IMHO, If you are going to deck the block, to "0" deck height, forget about measuring off pistons. All the shops I know of deck blocks with reference to the main bearing centerline. When done that way, simply measure up from the centerline to the desired height and cut to that number. As an example: Add 1/2 of crank stroke..say 4.300/2=2.150, plus center to center length of connecting rod..6.8, plus compression height of piston..1.350 to get the "stack height" of the assembly (2.150+6.8+1.350=10.300). Add (or subtract) from this the distance, from the deck, you want and have the block cut to that number.If you want zero (0) deck...have it cut to 10.300, if you want the pistons .005 OUT...cut to 10.295. Simple, accurate, and correct.

bbf-falcon wrote:bb429power,
First of all, I would like to commend you for being into a Hobby that you can enjoy w/Dad. My dad was paralized when I was a child but,he raised me and my brothers teaching us to do our own mech. work. It is a special time in your life that you won't realize until later on in life. Cherish these time w/Dad,and I know he's happy that you guy's are doing these things together. This is a great bunch and as good as they get when it comes to a BBF.You sound like you have a good and knowledgable head on your shoulders. Stay w/it son, and you will go far in life.

Sorry to hear about your dad, must have been painful for him to not be able to help you out in the garage with a lot of things. I do cherish these moments minus the ones where certain words are expressed (from him). Thanks though, I want to be a machinist and open up a performance engine shop. I have some good ideas that could rock the foundation of drag racing as we know it. Sadly my best idea ended up going into production by Pro Systems, the single throttle carburetor.

Maddmattmustangs: they are cast in China then brought over here and polished down really quick, causing them to wear the journals in an hourglass shape. Plus the OEM crank is by far stronger.

Thanks for the help guys. I know I can count on you.

bb429power wrote:

bbf-falcon wrote:bb429power,
First of all, I would like to commend you for being into a Hobby that you can enjoy w/Dad. My dad was paralized when I was a child but,he raised me and my brothers teaching us to do our own mech. work. It is a special time in your life that you won't realize until later on in life. Cherish these time w/Dad,and I know he's happy that you guy's are doing these things together. This is a great bunch and as good as they get when it comes to a BBF.You sound like you have a good and knowledgable head on your shoulders. Stay w/it son, and you will go far in life.

Sorry to hear about your dad, must have been painful for him to not be able to help you out in the garage with a lot of things. I do cherish these moments minus the ones where certain words are expressed (from him). Thanks though, I want to be a machinist and open up a performance engine shop. I have some good ideas that could rock the foundation of drag racing as we know it. Sadly my best idea ended up going into production by Pro Systems, the single throttle carburetor.

Maddmattmustangs: they are cast in China then brought over here and polished down really quick, causing them to wear the journals in an hourglass shape. Plus the OEM crank is by far stronger.

Thanks for the help guys. I know I can count on you.

ah i see guess ill go a scat cast crank then

why are you not doing a stock crank?
sorry i havent been following the build
is it you have a block and no crank or it was a bad crank?
you can find use motors cheap
wouldnt finding a decent used 460
and just getting the crank checked out and eather ground or polished up?
lot cheaper than the price of a new crank?
or are you doing a stroker?

It was a 429 so I would have to buy a crank anyway. But I was having trouble finding one when I needed it so my dad just decided to buy and Eagle. Which we had a OEM one we could have bought for $100 when the Eagle cost $245 plus $100 for grinding it. Even though its not my money, I don't want to see him waste his even if its for me.

chuck stevens wrote:IMHO, If you are going to deck the block, to "0" deck height, forget about measuring off pistons. All the shops I know of deck blocks with reference to the main bearing centerline. When done that way, simply measure up from the centerline to the desired height and cut to that number. As an example: Add 1/2 of crank stroke..say 4.300/2=2.150, plus center to center length of connecting rod..6.8, plus compression height of piston..1.350 to get the "stack height" of the assembly (2.150+6.8+1.350=10.300). Add (or subtract) from this the distance, from the deck, you want and have the block cut to that number.If you want zero (0) deck...have it cut to 10.300, if you want the pistons .005 OUT...cut to 10.295. Simple, accurate, and correct.

Mine adds up to 10.302" stack height. the block will be cut but I don't know how much it will be cut, what is the stock deck height on a 1971 429? I know the heads have been cut but I don't know how much.

If the stack height is 10.302, and you want "0" zero deck, have the block cut to 10.302.

Could I just cut the deck 2 thousandths and then shave the pistons 2 thousandths? I want it to be a straight deck, but do the heads change the quench too if they are cut?

'Er, no. milling the heads, in general because there are exceptions, does not change the quench...only the chamber volume,

Okay, My builder was going to get us the crank for a little cheaper, but he didn't buy it yet. He's looking at a Scat crank. But I was thinking, Couldn't I use my 429 crank and offset grind it to 460 crank specs and call it a day?

you could use a 429 crank but off set grinding it that much it would have to be 2.20 rod journals.... which sets you with a different problem...... custon rods and pistons......



Randy

I thought it would be no problem being that people have stroked 460 cranks to 2.200".

using Big Block Chevy Sized 6.800 or 6.700 Rods and Sometime Chrysler rods Yes, Not using your stock 460 / 429 rods.

If your going to spend the time and effort to do a stroker motor its cheaper for just get a kit from Adney (or other vendor) and that way for get a bunch more cubic inches for the $$ spent vs. stroking a 429 crank to 460 stroke........

You grasping at things trying to be cheap and its going to cost you more and you'll get less.......

dfree383 wrote:using Big Block Chevy Sized 6.800 or 6.700 Rods and Sometime Chrysler rods Yes, Not using your stock 460 / 429 rods.

If your going to spend the time and effort to do a stroker motor its cheaper for just get a kit from Adney (or other vendor) and that way for get a bunch more cubic inches for the $$ spent vs. stroking a 429 crank to 460 stroke........

You grasping at things trying to be cheap and its going to cost you more and you'll get less.......

100% X2

there is a reason for the word cheap. funny part is it always cost more .

I vote the stroker route

If your really strapped you could try a ford racing 4.3 crank which uses the stock rods and dimond still carries the correct piston to match stock rods to a 4.3 crank. If you plan on making more than 600 hp though, i would get a kit.

just speaking from being in the poor house myself!

Maddmattmustangs wrote:I vote the stroker route

If your really strapped you could try a ford racing 4.3 crank which uses the stock rods and dimond still carries the correct piston to match stock rods to a 4.3 crank. If you plan on making more than 600 hp though, i would get a kit.

just speaking from being in the poor house myself!

if I am not sure but I thought they discontinued those pistons now they are customs orders....


Randy