egt comparison

Blake requested a zoomed in view
Regular methanol one bank was unhooked accidentally when I had the dash out. Still it was a little rich on regular methanol.

which intake ?

Intake or exh. ?

What the Snake thinkin' of comin' to the darkside?????

victor intake

Blake is the dark side

KY JELLY wrote:victor intake

Blake is the dark side

You got it wrong......the Dark side is Blake.....................

richter69 wrote:

KY JELLY wrote:victor intake

Blake is the dark side

You got it wrong......the Dark side is Blake.....................

he's gona come out with a new flavor of "snake jelly"!

for some reason the temp scale is getting cut off on here .

direct link https://2img.net/h/i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa124/randykymustang/m-5.jpg

I guess I don't understand, what is this telling you about the engine?

not a lot of rpm drop on the shift..............

richter69 wrote:not a lot of rpm drop on the shift..............

That's what happens when an iresistable forcs meets a movable object............... Cosby power baby.............

[quote="KY JELLY"] Blake requested a zoomed in view
Regular methanol one bank was unhooked accidentally when I had the dash out. Still it was a little rich on regular methanol.








[/quote//

TravisRice wrote:

KY JELLY wrote: Blake requested a zoomed in view
Regular methanol one bank was unhooked accidentally when I had the dash out. Still it was a little rich on regular methanol.

The Fabio does not use a EGT meter .......... He does it by the aftertaste of the M5 after a pass.

HeRo tuning................ Mortals wouldn't understand.....................

==

TuNe By ThE tImEsLiP.......................

DaveMcLain wrote:I guess I don't understand, what is this telling you about the engine?

Its just a tuning aid Dave.

The one thing I know now is the car will 60' very well if the egt is around 600 degrees at launch.Most people would say it is way rich and it is , but the engine is building big torque due to high cylinder pressure and methanol or m-5 's ability to burn better than gas at a super rich mixture.

The trick is to clean up the upper rpm fuel mixture with a high speed lean out so the hp will be there with a much leaner mixture. I can tune the high speed with an adjustment screw to set the pressure it opens at and also a pill to control the volume of fuel that is bled off.

Like I said earlier its a tuning aid you still need to pay attention to the time slip and spark plugs. The red alert also has a warning feature you can wire a light to so you know during the run if something has happened , too lean , nos tune is out of wack , plugged injector , etc. I personally feel it is a nice gadget to have.

When using EGT's as a tuning aid what I've always found to be puzzling is that number one, EVERY engine tends to be a little different as to what EGT gives the best performance and or is good. Also, there is some lag involved so that even if the fuel curve was absolutely perfect the temperature would still rise through a pull or a run.

Using an example of mine: Several years ago I did a rebuild on a circle track engine for a customer. I did some updating etc but I didn't build the engine originally. It had a cam that was an ok choice but certainly not optimum. The engine when tuned and jetted optimally for best performance had an EGT reading of about 1450-1500 degrees! It was a header cracking, hot running engine. It always ran fine however and it never had any reliability problems. I freshened it a few times afterward and most of the time I replaced the exhaust valves after about a season of running.

For the same customer I built another engine of the same displacement and general configuration except for the camshaft and compression(much higher). That engine ran the best with an EGT that was down about 1000 degrees, quite a difference. It ran cool and it was easy on the headers. Reliability was also good...

I am sure there is lag in the thermo couples / probes and differences from different ones , placement , header design , etc, but you still have an idea of what your fuel curve is doing.

When you find the optimum curve for your engine you know what it is or very close and can verify it with your logger / time slip . You give it what it wants not what supposedly is the correct egt temp. I will not run my engine at a dangerous egt temp though , I am just not going to do it .

Dyno's are probably the same way my engine peaked at about 6700 rpm but it pulls to 7500 on the track , of course it was on a carb when dynoed


If you are just reading plugs would a rich launch condition show on the plug or are you just getting the clean finish line rpm mixture ? How do you know if you don't use an egt logger or wideband o2 meter ? Alcohol plugs don't show much IMO anyway , but I am not claiming to be a professional plug reader.

I have found my time slip matches the egt very close and I am confident in tuning with it .

In your example of your 2 engines this is what I think. A more efficient engine will burn more fuel and you was having to lean out the lesser engine to make up for its inefficient shortfall what ever it may have been. When it has to run at a leaner condition it will have higher egt. Don't take this as me trying to give you lessons Dave I know you are a very good tuner and you have my respect. That is just what I think.

KY JELLY wrote:

DaveMcLain wrote:I guess I don't understand, what is this telling you about the engine?

Its just a tuning aid Dave.

The one thing I know now is the car will 60' very well if the egt is around 600 degrees at launch.Most people would say it is way rich and it is , but the engine is building big torque due to high cylinder pressure and methanol or m-5 's ability to burn better than gas at a super rich mixture.

The trick is to clean up the upper rpm fuel mixture with a high speed lean out so the hp will be there with a much leaner mixture. I can tune the high speed with an adjustment screw to set the pressure it opens at and also a pill to control the volume of fuel that is bled off.

Like I said earlier its a tuning aid you still need to pay attention to the time slip and spark plugs. The red alert also has a warning feature you can wire a light to so you know during the run if something has happened , too lean , nos tune is out of wack , plugged injector , etc. I personally feel it is a nice gadget to have.

Watching some tuning at a Drag Boat Race being done by Jim Kinsler and asking a few questions gave somewhat of an insight.

He had 2 "lean out pills", (other than the mail line "pill"), and additional return lines to the tank in the system.
ONE leaned out a little bit at kinda lower pressure just after the launch.
ONE leaned out some more a little after peak torque of the engine.

He said - that is the MINIMUM amount of by-passes he would use in a DRAG application using alcohol.

And this is all strictly so that the fuel curve of the injection system can better match that of the engine. It can taper off as VE lessens with RPM. This is needed because the fuel pump tends to be more linear than the engine, right?

I would agree with your statement completely Dave. You want the maximum amount of fuel the engine will burn throughout the run. Airflow is only limited by what the engine will take in. If you really get technical a guy could start moving the engine timing during the run.

I myself would love to try a kinsler stack injector system but they are pricey. I do use their mechanical high speed lean out and it is a nice quality piece.

KY JELLY wrote:I would agree with your statement completely Dave. You want the maximum amount of fuel the engine will burn throughout the run. Airflow is only limited by what the engine will take in. If you really get technical a guy could start moving the engine timing during the run.

I myself would love to try a kinsler stack injector system but they are pricey. I do use their mechanical high speed lean out and it is a nice quality piece.

Actually Randy, you're looking to make use of the most AIR an engine can use and if it takes a bit rich of a mixture to do that, you will be better off. You don't want ANY unused oxygen going out the exhaust. The more fuel you can get out of there without any ill effect upon the cylinder pressure - the MORE air you can get in; (especially with alcohol for a fuel).

Do you mean the unused oxygen caused by an over rich / lean condition or a manifold or head flow problem ?

Take the victor manifold for instance it is lean on the corners with a carb and rich with an injector , that's got to be caused by a runner length / taper design problem , and an air flow problem , not injected fuel displacing the air. I would suspect the center runners are "stealing" air from the corners.

I think I figured it out one time and with methanol fuel the actual liquid fuel vs air is in a ratio of about 1:3400 so the fuel taking up room in the intake tract idea is largely mythology.