Starter kick back
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Tony M
Curt
bbf-falcon
7 posters
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Starter kick back
bbf-falcon September 7th 2010, 3:08 pm
Guy's,My engine is still kickin back on starter ,mostly when cold.(Crank Trigger setup.) I had the duraspark locked in w/TR intake w/hole drilled @1 and it was phased in. When I installed the single 4, I put the MSD deal in it and it still does it.It's doing it at 30* and at 32*. Do I need somekind of retarder on startup 
And has anyone else had this problem?When it's warm it don't seem to be as bad 
And has anyone else had this problem?When it's warm it don't seem to be as bad
bbf-falcon- Posts : 8995
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Jackson, Ohio
Curt- Posts : 2791
Join date : 2009-02-08
Age : 62
Location : Henrietta, Texas but mostly on the road
Re: Starter kick back
Tony M September 7th 2010, 4:59 pm
do you use a stock type starter ? You shouldnt need a retarder at 32 degrees. when I ran on muscle I had 15:5 compression and ran 37 degrees and rarley had a problem.
Tony M- Posts : 479
Join date : 2010-01-17
Age : 54
Location : North Jersey
Re: Starter kick back
richter69 September 7th 2010, 5:09 pm
We run our smallblock locked out at 36*, never tries to kickback at all. The BB is at 31* and runs a CT, I do have a start retard on it though.
If the phase is good as you say and all the electrical stuff up to par the MSD starter saver might be the thing for you, its like 85 bucks.
If the phase is good as you say and all the electrical stuff up to par the MSD starter saver might be the thing for you, its like 85 bucks.
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Re: Starter kick back
lghting94 September 7th 2010, 5:32 pm
Are you getting the motor spinning over then turning on the msd(seperate switch)? This is how i have to start my truck.
lghting94- Posts : 762
Join date : 2008-12-16
Location : Vine Grove Kentucky
Hey...you want to start something?
Wheelie58 September 7th 2010, 6:54 pm
My deal with a crank trigger uses a 10 degree "start retard" and I just crank it up with the normal factory ignition switch. Depending on the type of setup, I run between 28 and 32 degrees...usually 30...
I know lots of dudes that spin the engine and then turn on the ignition with a separate switch...and that works nicely also. That is better with no start retard system.
One thought on the rotor phasing...it should like up with the cap terminal at full advance.
I hope this helps,
Keith
I know lots of dudes that spin the engine and then turn on the ignition with a separate switch...and that works nicely also. That is better with no start retard system.
One thought on the rotor phasing...it should like up with the cap terminal at full advance.
I hope this helps,
Keith
Wheelie58- Posts : 1842
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Re: Starter kick back
Nevs September 7th 2010, 7:36 pm
lghting94 wrote:Are you getting the motor spinning over then turning on the msd(seperate switch)? This is how i have to start my truck.
That's how I've always done it as well.
Nevs- BBF CONTRIBUTOR
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Re: Starter kick back
richter69 September 7th 2010, 7:40 pm
Wheelie58 wrote:My deal with a crank trigger uses a 10 degree "start retard" and I just crank it up with the normal factory ignition switch. Depending on the type of setup, I run between 28 and 32 degrees...usually 30...
I know lots of dudes that spin the engine and then turn on the ignition with a separate switch...and that works nicely also. That is better with no start retard system.
One thought on the rotor phasing...it should like up with the cap terminal at full advance.
I hope this helps,
Keith
^^^^^ so easy a caveman could do it.
On a side note, if you insatall the MSD starter saver, recheck the timing rotor phase as it retards the timing a few degrees.
richter69- Posts : 13649
Join date : 2008-12-02
Age : 53
Location : In the winners circle
Re: Starter kick back
Wheelie58 September 7th 2010, 10:15 pm
richter69 wrote:Wheelie58 wrote:My deal with a crank trigger uses a 10 degree "start retard" and I just crank it up with the normal factory ignition switch. Depending on the type of setup, I run between 28 and 32 degrees...usually 30...
I know lots of dudes that spin the engine and then turn on the ignition with a separate switch...and that works nicely also. That is better with no start retard system.
One thought on the rotor phasing...it should like up with the cap terminal at full advance.
I hope this helps,
Keith
^^^^^ so easy a caveman could do it.
Almost.....
So easy that a Hillbilly can do it!
On a side note, if you insatall the MSD starter saver, recheck the timing rotor phase as it retards the timing a few degrees.
Wheelie58- Posts : 1842
Join date : 2009-08-08
Location : Alpharetta, GA -
Re: Starter kick back
bbf-falcon September 7th 2010, 10:24 pm
It will do it either way(spin first or not).Most of the time when its warm,ya just touch the starter and its running. Its a Crank trigger deal so It should'nt make a difference whether its phased at idle or 2500 because it's already advanced 
The starter is a Hi Torque gear reduction (Lakewood).I'm concerned it might tear the starter drive up or worse the flywheel.
How much does the retarder take it back to and are they adjustable
The starter is a Hi Torque gear reduction (Lakewood).I'm concerned it might tear the starter drive up or worse the flywheel.How much does the retarder take it back to and are they adjustable
bbf-falcon- Posts : 8995
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Jackson, Ohio
Re: Starter kick back
richter69 September 7th 2010, 10:28 pm
The starter saver is in retard mode when the rpm is like under 800 rpm, once it gets above that it goes back to the regular timing setting. After install I want to say it was 6* retarded overall............you'll have to recheck and see, may not be that much.
It has either a 10* or 20* retard, cutting a wire loop changes it from one to the other.....I dont remember where mines at, I forget its there lol.
It has either a 10* or 20* retard, cutting a wire loop changes it from one to the other.....I dont remember where mines at, I forget its there lol.
richter69- Posts : 13649
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Re: Starter kick back
Curt September 7th 2010, 10:37 pm
With a carb, you shouldnt have to spin it. It either kicks back because it tries to lean start, or doesnt have enough umph to spin it. IMHO 
Curt- Posts : 2791
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Age : 62
Location : Henrietta, Texas but mostly on the road
Re: Starter kick back
Wheelie58 September 7th 2010, 10:43 pm
Some of the programmable sysems are fully adjustable for the start retard feature.
The MSD 8984 has 2 choices....as stated by fellow BBFers.
Here is the poop from the 8984 manual:
"When you install a crank trigger system, having locked out timing may put a strain on the starter and flywheel. This compact controller provides a retard that automatically retards the timing during cranking to ease the pressure. The MSD Starter Saver measures only 1.5” X 3.5” X 2” and wires into your ignition system with only four wires. It can be programmed to retard the timing 10° or 20° during cranking only. The retard is activated when the engine begins cranking and is deactivated once the engine reaches over 800 rpm. (If the engine rpm drops below 500 rpm it will activate again.)The Starter Saver receives the trigger signal through an MSD Crank Trigger Pick-Up or the Distributor’s magnetic pick-up. This Control has a very accurate pick-up compensation circuit resulting in rock steady timing throughout the entire rpm range of your engine. There is also an LED that illuminates with each trigger signal to confirm operation and the circuitry is completely potted in a polyurethane compound for extreme vibration resistance."
MSD also has Timing Computers (8980 and 8982) for more features...like high gear retards...low gear retards...and such.
Keith
The MSD 8984 has 2 choices....as stated by fellow BBFers.
Here is the poop from the 8984 manual:
"When you install a crank trigger system, having locked out timing may put a strain on the starter and flywheel. This compact controller provides a retard that automatically retards the timing during cranking to ease the pressure. The MSD Starter Saver measures only 1.5” X 3.5” X 2” and wires into your ignition system with only four wires. It can be programmed to retard the timing 10° or 20° during cranking only. The retard is activated when the engine begins cranking and is deactivated once the engine reaches over 800 rpm. (If the engine rpm drops below 500 rpm it will activate again.)The Starter Saver receives the trigger signal through an MSD Crank Trigger Pick-Up or the Distributor’s magnetic pick-up. This Control has a very accurate pick-up compensation circuit resulting in rock steady timing throughout the entire rpm range of your engine. There is also an LED that illuminates with each trigger signal to confirm operation and the circuitry is completely potted in a polyurethane compound for extreme vibration resistance."
MSD also has Timing Computers (8980 and 8982) for more features...like high gear retards...low gear retards...and such.
Keith
Wheelie58- Posts : 1842
Join date : 2009-08-08
Location : Alpharetta, GA -
Re: Starter kick back
bbf-falcon September 7th 2010, 10:47 pm
Thanks guy's,that sounds like what I need.10* should do it. Thx 
bbf-falcon- Posts : 8995
Join date : 2008-12-03
Location : Jackson, Ohio
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