does this seem realistic?

Am I out of line hoping for 500hp+ and/or 11.00 or better ETs?


1. Intended use
Street/Strip... the strip performance is more important than street comfort

2. Vehicle info (weight/gearing/trans)
completely gutted, '88 mustang hatch, I would guess the weight to be around 2800~, disc brake, Ford Explorer rearend with 3.73's, trans is a bone stock C6 from a '76 Thunderbird but has a 3K stall T.C., trans cooler and will be getting a shift kit, using a pro-ratchet shifter.

3. Fuel desired to use (racing gas/av gas/E-85/methonal/pumpgas)
93 octane or better

4. Parts you already have
-60k mile short block from '76 Thunderbird, H.V. oil pump, Canton swap pan/pickup, double roller timing set
-Lunati 61604 camshaft (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LUN-61604LK/)
-D0VE heads, full, professional port/polish and machined .050 (came off a 700HP+ N/A 52x stroker), 2.25/1.725 SS valves (say right around 10:1 compression)
-1.73 stainless steel roller rockers
-Performer RPM intake (port matched to heads/gasket)
-Holley 850 D.P. carb
-Holley "blue" fuel pump
-sumped tank, 5/8" hardline to Y-block, -10 to each carb inlet
-Hooker long tubes, 1-7/8" - 3", dual 3" straight pipes with glass packs
-D.U.I. distributor
-MSD 6-HVC ignition
-Ford racing 9mm plug wires (haven't chosen plugs yet)

The car also has torque box reinforcement, boxed control arms (stockers I boxed), sub-frame connectors, no heat/AC stuff AT ALL, battery relocated to rear right. aluminum 3" driveshaft, 3-row aluminum radiator, Taurus fan and I'll be running 27x10.5 slicks. Let me know if I am missing anything. also, it will be spring before I get any ET's but dyno numbers I can get over the winter. Pretty much done building the car, just have to do the gauges, trans cooler and wire the ignition.

Sounds about right to me, probably 550+hp. So is it a stock bottom end 460?

That should make 11's easy, as for the horsepower output I'm thinking atleast 570 if the port jobs is very good. Do you have flow numbers for the heads?

the block and rotating assembly is stock. I am not 100% sure on the flow numbers but I am pretty sure he said something like 310/200 @ .500 lift. I do not know anything about the equipment used or anything so...?

also, I am not hoping for 11's, I am hoping for 11.00 or better, so really, I am wanting a 10.99 or better but...

You will need to be very carefull with the cast pistons, as they aren't going to last long with higher RPM's. A 5500 limit or less would be a good idea.

Why the massive fuel line?

Are you willing to pull the bottom end out and spend a little $$$ to make this thing last higher rpms and a longer period of time?

FORDMUD wrote:Why the massive fuel line?

It is what I had laying around. Plus the carb came with fittings, lines and the Y-block all -10 so I figured, no point is wasting money on smaller stuff.

bb429power wrote:Are you willing to pull the bottom end out and spend a little $$$ to make this thing last higher rpms and a longer period of time?

not as of right now. I want to run it as-is for now and see what it does. In the future, I do plan on a 557 Stroker. the engine ran insanely well when it was stock and only had about 60K miles on it so I didn't want to mess with the short block at all (except the camshaft obviously)

The idea behind this build was to just make some good, CHEAP power. I think I have about $1200 in the ENTIRE car. engine, trans, the car itself, chassis stuff etc...

schmitty wrote:You will need to be very carefull with the cast pistons, as they aren't going to last long with higher RPM's. A 5500 limit or less would be a good idea.

I was planning on a 5800 redline...

if nothing else, a blown motor would give me an excuse to build a stroker.

SLOWnSTEADY wrote:

I was planning on a 5800 redline...

You may want to lower your expectations a little, no sense in destroying something usefull. Usually when a piston/rod lets go, it ruins the whole engine.

SLOWnSTEADY wrote:

if nothing else, a blown motor would give me an excuse to build a stroker.

It will be a lot cheaper to build the stroker the first time.

schmitty wrote:You will need to be very carefull with the cast pistons, as they aren't going to last long with higher RPM's. A 5500 limit or less would be a good idea.

?

bb429power wrote:Sounds about right to me, probably 550+hp. So is it a stock bottom end 460?

5/8 LINE and #10 to carbs will not be good,

I'd agree with Rich, that's a big column of fuel for a blue pump to push. 3/8 is a way better choice IMO

I don't think you can run the 1/4 with that tire/gear combo
I've got 3:73 28 inch tire hitting 5800 rpm at 100 mph in the 1/8

I'm running a dove headed no port work 545 stock c6 full weight fox body went 7.0 with your same cam then went 6.80 with the c460 cam
It's got alot left on the table but the trans Is slipping bad

i agree 7.0s 1/8th ,its very similar to my setup,but i have a 33 tall tire and 5.00 gear i go 6.80s and have been 6.77 ,with mine, its a hatch gutted ,not sure on weight,im like you i plan on building a stroker later on ,mine was rebuilt and has been balanced ,with flat top pistions forged probe , oh and i have been 10.50s 1/4

Personally, I don't envision you getting to your horsepower target level with the parts you are going to use.

A new FRPP crate motor #M-6007-G460 which has the same intake and about the same size camshaft gets 500 horsepower SAE and it has aluminum SCJ cylinder heads.

Never do it with 5800 rpm's.............D....(going to go look up that camshaft)

rmcomprandy wrote:Personally, I don't envision you getting to your horsepower target level with the parts you are going to use.

A new FRPP crate motor #M-6007-G460 which has the same intake and about the same size camshaft gets 500 horsepower SAE and it has aluminum SCJ cylinder heads.

Actually, the G460 uses a Victor jr. intake... the F460 uses the Performer RPM and C460 camshaft and it is rated at 550. I also believe they are assembled with "as cast" heads and intake. Also, what type of exhaust is that rating with? What type of fuel? Ignition? etc... Any dyno sheets floating around of the crate engines?

Honestly though, my goal was 500HP and I am confident I got that taken care of.

one of the Mags. put the 550hp 460 crate motor's on a dyno to see if it really would make 550hp. and it made a little over 600hp.
Ford dratted the hp #s so one one could say it didn't make that much hp.

SLOWnSTEADY wrote:

rmcomprandy wrote:Personally, I don't envision you getting to your horsepower target level with the parts you are going to use.

A new FRPP crate motor #M-6007-G460 which has the same intake and about the same size camshaft gets 500 horsepower SAE and it has aluminum SCJ cylinder heads.

Actually, the G460 uses a Victor jr. intake... the F460 uses the Performer RPM and C460 camshaft and it is rated at 550. I also believe they are assembled with "as cast" heads and intake. Also, what type of exhaust is that rating with? What type of fuel? Ignition? etc... Any dyno sheets floating around of the crate engines?

Honestly though, my goal was 500HP and I am confident I got that taken care of.

You better go and look it up, the 500 horsepower, "G"460 crate engine uses a "Performer RPM" dual plane intake manifold, (the "F"460 engine used the M-9424-G429 Victor intake). The "G" also used an M-6250-A443 hydraulic lifter camshaft and had 10.5/1 compression; dyno'ed with Holley 850 cfm double pumper carb and 2" dyno headers on VP C11 race gasoline.
It barely made it to 500 SAE HP and had 495 lb/ft of torque.

I was at that very dyno session in 2003.

Those SCJA heads "out of the box" will greatly out-horsepower ANY iron D0VE head, ported or not.

You asked and I told you but, you think I'm wrong so, just forget I said anything,

res0rli9 wrote:one of the Mags. put the 550hp 460 crate motor's on a dyno to see if it really would make 550hp. and it made a little over 600hp.
Ford dratted the hp #s so one one could say it didn't make that much hp.

Ford rates their crate engines at SAE figures NOT the STC figures which use different correction factors; neither are actual observed figures.

rmcomprandy wrote:
You better go and look it up, the 500 horsepower, "G"460 crate engine uses a "Performer RPM" dual plane intake manifold, (the "F"460 engine used the M-9424-G429 Victor intake). The "G" also used an M-6250-A443 hydraulic lifter camshaft and had 10.5/1 compression; dyno'ed with Holley 850 cfm double pumper carb and 2" dyno headers on VP C11 race gasoline.
It barely made it to 500 SAE HP and had 495 lb/ft of torque.

I was at that very dyno session in 2003.

Those SCJA heads "out of the box" will greatly out-horsepower ANY iron D0VE head, ported or not.

You asked and I told you but, you think I'm wrong so, just forget I said anything,

Do you think I would say anything if i DIDN'T look it up? here you go straight from fordracingparts.com:

and the link in case you think I messed with it or something: http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/029.pdf

my D0VEs had the same, if not better flow numbers than stock SCJ aluminum heads. That is, according to reincarnation-autos flow numbers which put the "as cast" A.SCJ at 314/190 @ 500

I am not arguing with you about you opinion, it is just that, YOUR OPINION. I am going to be happy with anything over 500hp and I can all but guarantee I will be making that.

[quote="SLOWnSTEADY"]

rmcomprandy wrote:
You better go and look it up, the 500 horsepower, "G"460 crate engine uses a "Performer RPM" dual plane intake manifold, (the "F"460 engine used the M-9424-G429 Victor intake). The "G" also used an M-6250-A443 hydraulic lifter camshaft and had 10.5/1 compression; dyno'ed with Holley 850 cfm double pumper carb and 2" dyno headers on VP C11 race gasoline.
It barely made it to 500 SAE HP and had 495 lb/ft of torque.

I was at that very dyno session in 2003.

Those SCJA heads "out of the box" will greatly out-horsepower ANY iron D0VE head, ported or not.

You asked and I told you but, you think I'm wrong so, just forget I said anything,

Do you think I would say anything if i DIDN'T look it up? here you go straight from fordracingparts.com:

and the link in case you think I messed with it or something: http://www.fordracingparts.com/download/charts/029.pdf

my D0VEs had the same, if not better flow numbers than stock SCJ aluminum heads. That is, according to reincarnation-autos flow numbers which put the "as cast" A.SCJ at 314/190 @ 500

I am not arguing with you about you opinion, it is just that, YOUR OPINION. I am going to be happy with anything over 500hp and I can all but guarantee I will be making that.



Well, Our oppinions may differ but, oppinions is what you asked for and my argument is only with the FRPP crate motor information.
You happened to choose the chart taken from the 2005 FRPP catalogue page 29 with the intake information transposed. That chart is wrong as several other sources will confirm; (as in pages 44 & 45 of that same 2005 FRPP catalogue or pages 16 & 17 of the 2004 FRPP catalogye where those engines were originally introduced in print).

I was simply trying to give you a realistic number but, as I said you are sure that I'm mistaken so, you should just forget it. I am sorry to have entered your thread.