Project jerk killer
+9
BOSS 429
dfree383
cletus66
c.evans
richter69
powerstrokeace
torkair
cooter
Maddmattmustangs
13 posters
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Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 25th 2010, 10:40 pm
Alright guys I need critics! Ideas everything! Got 2 months before I need this motor running!
Goal- push my 73 stang as close to or into the 10's as possible with what I have.
What I have available- 429 short block remanufactured, never ran, .060 overbore according to the pistons and my machine shops messurement. 1 pair of C9VE heads stock size one peice valves with stud mounted rockers. One spare victor 4150 flange intake, timing cover, roller timing sets, one solid roller Cam with 727 lift and 268 degrees of duration at .050. One hydro flat tappet rv cam.
I plan on porting the heads with most of my effort in the exhaust. May run the stock size to save money if I can do what I want with it. Should I hunt for a 460 crank and pistons? What can I do with this?
Goal- push my 73 stang as close to or into the 10's as possible with what I have.
What I have available- 429 short block remanufactured, never ran, .060 overbore according to the pistons and my machine shops messurement. 1 pair of C9VE heads stock size one peice valves with stud mounted rockers. One spare victor 4150 flange intake, timing cover, roller timing sets, one solid roller Cam with 727 lift and 268 degrees of duration at .050. One hydro flat tappet rv cam.
I plan on porting the heads with most of my effort in the exhaust. May run the stock size to save money if I can do what I want with it. Should I hunt for a 460 crank and pistons? What can I do with this?
Maddmattmustangs- Posts : 1201
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Re: Project jerk killer
cooter October 26th 2010, 12:06 am
im thinkin youre a ways off the 10s, a massive cam is great but when the heads quit flowing the extra valve lift wont get you far imo
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Re: Project jerk killer
torkair October 26th 2010, 12:38 am
That roller cam is too much cam for those heads, might see if someone here is willing to trade cams with you so you've got what you need. The extra 30ish cubes from going with the 460 crank and rods will make a BIG difference and you should be able to get one pretty cheap. You're gonna need some n2o in order to get where you want without shelling out too much cash as well.
Good luck!
Good luck!
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Re: Project jerk killer
powerstrokeace October 26th 2010, 12:40 am
What about the transmission and the suspension..... You have a ways to go
Ace
Ace
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 12:52 am
Yea, I probably won't run that camshaft, Ive been able to get 180 cfm out of a stock valve size exhaust port, intake well, that's decent to begin with 
And if I can find a 4.3 arm and pistons like the old ford motorsports 514 crate motors
And if I can find a 4.3 arm and pistons like the old ford motorsports 514 crate motors
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Re: Project jerk killer
c.evans October 26th 2010, 1:32 am
MaddMatt,
Please don't let the existence of a few parts on hand,,,,,force you to make some bad decisions on your build. You don't want to spend good money after bad.
For example, years ago I knew a guy who bought a NOS set of forged pistons at a very good swap meet price. The problem was they were standard bore. So then he tore down 3 complete junkyard engines in an effort to find a low mileage engine with standard size bores. He could not find a suitable block, and on the 4th engine that he found the bores were close but still needed serious honing. The bottom line is, he built his new musclecar engine with way too much piston to wall clearance and his pistons knocked upon initial start-up while they were cold.. He wasted a whole lot of time and sweat in efforts to pinch pennies and still wasn't happy with the result.
Charlie
Please don't let the existence of a few parts on hand,,,,,force you to make some bad decisions on your build. You don't want to spend good money after bad.
For example, years ago I knew a guy who bought a NOS set of forged pistons at a very good swap meet price. The problem was they were standard bore. So then he tore down 3 complete junkyard engines in an effort to find a low mileage engine with standard size bores. He could not find a suitable block, and on the 4th engine that he found the bores were close but still needed serious honing. The bottom line is, he built his new musclecar engine with way too much piston to wall clearance and his pistons knocked upon initial start-up while they were cold.. He wasted a whole lot of time and sweat in efforts to pinch pennies and still wasn't happy with the result.
Charlie
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Re: Project jerk killer
cletus66 October 26th 2010, 2:02 am
c.evans wrote:MaddMatt,
Please don't let the existence of a few parts on hand,,,,,force you to make some bad decisions on your build. You don't want to spend good money after bad.
For example, years ago I knew a guy who bought a NOS set of forged pistons at a very good swap meet price. The problem was they were standard bore. So then he tore down 3 complete junkyard engines in an effort to find a low mileage engine with standard size bores. He could not find a suitable block, and on the 4th engine that he found the bores were close but still needed serious honing. The bottom line is, he built his new musclecar engine with way too much piston to wall clearance and his pistons knocked upon initial start-up while they were cold.. He wasted a whole lot of time and sweat in efforts to pinch pennies and still wasn't happy with the result.
Charlie
EXACTLY !!!! Time is money. I have been guilty of being penny wise and pound foolish on many occasions.
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 2:09 am
c.evans wrote:MaddMatt,
Please don't let the existence of a few parts on hand,,,,,force you to make some bad decisions on your build. You don't want to spend good money after bad.
For example, years ago I knew a guy who bought a NOS set of forged pistons at a very good swap meet price. The problem was they were standard bore. So then he tore down 3 complete junkyard engines in an effort to find a low mileage engine with standard size bores. He could not find a suitable block, and on the 4th engine that he found the bores were close but still needed serious honing. The bottom line is, he built his new musclecar engine with way too much piston to wall clearance and his pistons knocked upon initial start-up while they were cold.. He wasted a whole lot of time and sweat in efforts to pinch pennies and still wasn't happy with the result.
Charlie
I know exactly what you mean there, Im only swapping rotating assimbly parts if and only if it will fit my current finished bore as is or with slight honing. I still have my smallblock to fall back on, I guess if it's not fast enough n/a then I could spray it. It's got a forged scat crankshaft and H-beams with probe forged dished
pistons. I guess one way to look at this engine is that it needs to crank more than my smallblock but less than my planned 557. Kinda a stepping stone so I don't splater myself against a wall or something with the bigger motors.
Maddmattmustangs- Posts : 1201
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 2:11 am
Maddmattmustangs wrote:c.evans wrote:MaddMatt,
Please don't let the existence of a few parts on hand,,,,,force you to make some bad decisions on your build. You don't want to spend good money after bad.
For example, years ago I knew a guy who bought a NOS set of forged pistons at a very good swap meet price. The problem was they were standard bore. So then he tore down 3 complete junkyard engines in an effort to find a low mileage engine with standard size bores. He could not find a suitable block, and on the 4th engine that he found the bores were close but still needed serious honing. The bottom line is, he built his new musclecar engine with way too much piston to wall clearance and his pistons knocked upon initial start-up while they were cold.. He wasted a whole lot of time and sweat in efforts to pinch pennies and still wasn't happy with the result.
Charlie
I know exactly what you mean there, Im only swapping rotating assimbly parts if and only if it will fit my current finished bore as is or with slight honing. I still have my smallblock to fall back on, I guess if it's not fast enough n/a then I could spray it. It's got a forged scat crankshaft and H-beams with probe forged dished
pistons. I guess one way to look at this engine is that it needs to crank more than my smallblock but less than my planned 557. Kinda a stepping stone so I don't splater myself against a wall or something with the bigger motors.
Maddmattmustangs- Posts : 1201
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Re: Project jerk killer
dfree383 October 26th 2010, 3:05 am
What kind of budget do you have to work with?
No 1 work on the intake ports that's where the hp is, we can cam for crappy exhaust.
No 2 a 429" motor will work fine if your on a budget.....
No 3 stick to the basics...... Compression, Induction, Exhaust and the proper cam timing to make what you got work together.
No 4 and most important..... Suspension set-up, tires, gearing and convertor..... These absoulotly are the most important in getting the most, this will make or break your build..... You'll either be a HeRo or a ZERO.
Now stop screwing around and Get-r-done.....
No 1 work on the intake ports that's where the hp is, we can cam for crappy exhaust.
No 2 a 429" motor will work fine if your on a budget.....
No 3 stick to the basics...... Compression, Induction, Exhaust and the proper cam timing to make what you got work together.
No 4 and most important..... Suspension set-up, tires, gearing and convertor..... These absoulotly are the most important in getting the most, this will make or break your build..... You'll either be a HeRo or a ZERO.
Now stop screwing around and Get-r-done.....
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Re: Project jerk killer
dfree383 October 26th 2010, 3:11 am
Oh yea and if all else fails...... 150 shot of gigle gas equalizes all the screw ups you may make....... And it's a cheap way to open a can of woop ass.......
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 7:52 am
Rears 4.11 gears although she may be a bit of a slug off the line due to the 3.27 first gear in the trans 
Probably split mono leafs and or caltracs since I do have that laying around, good tires are going to be thrown on as well. Where should I focus my efforts in the intakes? All they have right now is decent bowl blends
Probably split mono leafs and or caltracs since I do have that laying around, good tires are going to be thrown on as well. Where should I focus my efforts in the intakes? All they have right now is decent bowl blends
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Re: Project jerk killer
dfree383 October 26th 2010, 8:22 am
First off get and automatic if your drag racing. C6 and a convertor, matched to the cam and parts your using.
Get the bowls opened up to 90-91% of a 2.25 intake valve and the exhausts to a 1.76 valve.
Blend from their up into the intake port and lightly lay back the short turn. Should get you about 310-320 on the intakes, plenty of air for a 429" motor. Match the Intakes to the victor manifold (not CJ size)
Exhaust remove the bumps and stay out of the bowl to the intake side other than to blend the ridge, do not hog in this area their is water their. do not lay back the short turns on the exhaust.
Get a proper 3-5 angle valve job and do not use a radius cutter on the chambers, its not good for power. Just blend out the bumps and riges in the chamber (nothing major required)
Get the bowls opened up to 90-91% of a 2.25 intake valve and the exhausts to a 1.76 valve.
Blend from their up into the intake port and lightly lay back the short turn. Should get you about 310-320 on the intakes, plenty of air for a 429" motor. Match the Intakes to the victor manifold (not CJ size)
Exhaust remove the bumps and stay out of the bowl to the intake side other than to blend the ridge, do not hog in this area their is water their. do not lay back the short turns on the exhaust.
Get a proper 3-5 angle valve job and do not use a radius cutter on the chambers, its not good for power. Just blend out the bumps and riges in the chamber (nothing major required)
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Re: Project jerk killer
dfree383 October 26th 2010, 8:24 am
BOSS 429 wrote:thats a 13.4 ratio, not bad at all
to much for a stick and what hes doing, never be able to get out of first fast enough....... any good auto will out 60' his ass in a heartbeat.
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 9:38 am
I figured that was where the water jacket is. Good thing all I ever do on that side is blend the ridge, usually use a dremel too for the lower rpm. Sounds like the previous owner went the right direction with the chambers and intakes though!! 
As for the MT issue it's what I'm running, it's a modded tr-3550 has a lower first than the tko 600 but same input only cryo treated and a 31 spline output installed. Guy that built it did the same for his son and it held very well. My competition is using t-5's Just found that out this morning. Also the fastest one runs 7.3 in the 1/8 so what would that run in the 1/4?
As for the MT issue it's what I'm running, it's a modded tr-3550 has a lower first than the tko 600 but same input only cryo treated and a 31 spline output installed. Guy that built it did the same for his son and it held very well. My competition is using t-5's
Just found that out this morning. Also the fastest one runs 7.3 in the 1/8 so what would that run in the 1/4?
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 10:15 am
Anyway where about do I need to be compression wise? This is going to probably be a race gas deal. Highly doubt I'll get where I want with pump gas and wiper fluid
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Re: Project jerk killer
schmitty October 26th 2010, 10:41 am
More is usually better, but whatever you can get with a flat top is usually best. 
I can't remember exactly what I had with the C9's and my -12cc dish pistons in the 472, but I believe it was a little over 10:1, flat tops would be about a point or so higher.
I can't remember exactly what I had with the C9's and my -12cc dish pistons in the 472, but I believe it was a little over 10:1, flat tops would be about a point or so higher.
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Re: Project jerk killer
dfree383 October 26th 2010, 10:48 am
Well as far as compression, 13.5-14.0:1 is a nice place to be for race gas and a race car. Decently wide tuning band and great power, about the point where the big returns start to fall off as far as gains are concerned.
But realistical if you have rebuilder pistons with a dish, most you'll probably get is in the 9.5-10:1 range, which will work fine with 91-93 pump gas and Iron heads.
If you can afford a set of TRW Flat tops for the 429 you can get into the 11:1 range, but if your going to buy pistons, just get a 460 crank and some FT's to get about 11.5-12:1, those are both low buck options for you.
But Like I've said before, the 429 can be made to do good too for what it is.
But realistical if you have rebuilder pistons with a dish, most you'll probably get is in the 9.5-10:1 range, which will work fine with 91-93 pump gas and Iron heads.
If you can afford a set of TRW Flat tops for the 429 you can get into the 11:1 range, but if your going to buy pistons, just get a 460 crank and some FT's to get about 11.5-12:1, those are both low buck options for you.
But Like I've said before, the 429 can be made to do good too for what it is.
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 11:18 am
I just got an offer on a crank from a member on here for a cheap price, if the crank mikes out ok then I'll probably go 460 (472) 
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Re: Project jerk killer
dfree383 October 26th 2010, 11:41 am
That will work, look into a set of Probe FT's they are a pretty good deal for the $$, that will get you in the 11.5-12:1 range, depending on the machine work you do.
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Re: Project jerk killer
Maddmattmustangs October 26th 2010, 11:51 am
One of the heads developed some surface rust on the bottom so im probably going to deck them .010 atleast to make sure I have a good sealing surface. Trick is getting a CSM that won't make mr piston and mr valve colide
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