Starting and Wiring Help!

I was told that before you can start an engine, it has to be at top dead center:
1. Why does the engine need to be in this position?
2. How do I know if the engine is in this position?
3. How do I get the engine into this position?

I am re-wiring some components in my 62 Galaxie and need some help:
1. On the regulator I know that S and F go to the alternator's S and F, but where does I and A go?
2. From the solenoid, which post does the starter connect to?

I think that's it for now. Thanks in advance!
Keith

On your start the engine
1. tdc is used when installing the dizzy if the dizzy and wires are right the engine does not care where it is when you hit the starter to start it.
2 and 3.Pull the #1 plug out bunp it over to get the #1 compression stroke up then line the tdc keep the 1 one piston on top you mit have to back it up or move it farward with a socket.

From the solenoid, which post does the starter connect to?
looking at it on the fender it is the post on the rear next to the firewall

as for the I and A not sure but I believe the I goes to the key switch and the A to the positive side of the soleniod but don't hold me to that may some of the others will chime in on this

Kind of new to this stuff; is the "dizzy" the distributor?
Let's see, just to make sure I understand this correctly:
*I pull the #1 spark plug out and then turn the crank until the #1 piston is at the top of it's stroke, correct?
*If this is correct, how can I tell when the piston is at the top?
*One of my neighbors said that I needed to make sure the number one distributor plug made a straight line with the number one cylinder. What the heck does that mean?

Okay, so looking at the solenoid from the front (from the angle where you can see the I & S terminals), the starter would connect to the post on the right, correct? Which would be the post opposite of where the battery would connect to, correct?

Yeah, I think the "I" goes to the ignition as well, but in regards to the "A", I thought it went to the battery terminal on the alternator as well, but others have told me that the battery terminal on the alternator connects to the positive terminal of the solenoid. I'm so confused.

No disrespect intended but you really need to find someone who knows to help you. It is almost impossible to explain exactly how to do this by typing instructions on here. You obviously have little or no experience with this kind of stuff. You will spend a bunch of time and possibly damage your car and its wiring while attempting to do this by trial and error.

Like I said find someone who knows, pay them if you have to and learn everything you can from them. Then next time you will know.

dkp

yes the dizzy is the distributor it just a short term for it, yes make sure it is on compression stroke the piston will come up 2 times in a cycle 1 will be compression stroke and 1 will be exhaust stroke.find your timing marks on the balancer and line TDC up with the pointer then you will be at top dead center.
He was referring to the #1 wire going to the #1 plug make sure the rotor is pointing to the number wire on dizzy.Make sure you are on the compression stroke not the exhaust stroke.

solenoid yes if you are looking at it with the I & S in the front the right copper post sticking strieght out the side goes to the starter wire ,the one on the left goes to the battery and the A wire from the regulator and the postive off the alt.

Like boss said it is hard to explain over the internet if you haven't messed with this kind of wiring this is about the best I can explan it so maybe it will help

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/tOCMP/wiring/5765wiring%20diagrams/Ford/MWire5765-210.jpg

Awesome, thanks guys! Your willingness to help me out is truly appreciated!

I always plug the #1 plug hole (Rt. front)w/small piece of paper towel and the turn over engine w/power bar .When it blows the paper out, it is on the comp.stroke.Then turn it around until the timing mark indicator lines up w/10* mark on the balancer. Match up #1 plug wire on dizzy cap w/rotor tip and you will be in time .You will have to move the dizzy a little one way or another then use a timing light after startup.

One thing that is great to know on an engine with a replaced harmonic balancer. You can get it on the compression stroke then stick a long screwdriver in the spark plug hole, then have someone else turn it over until it stops coming up (the piston is at tdc). Reason being (I've had to deal with this) the piston could be 10* from tdc and the balancer shows its at tdc or this could be because someone put timing tape on it and didn't line it up right or the diameter is different and the timing marks aren't in the right spot. Just something to know for future reference.

Listen to what Jim (69f100) and Rick (bbf-falcon) are saying, they are guiding you in the right direction. Oh, and when someone says left or right side they are talking about if you were sitting in the drivers seat what side would it be on.

TheFrog wrote:I was told that before you can start an engine, it has to be at top dead center:
1. Why does the engine need to be in this position?
2. How do I know if the engine is in this position?
3. How do I get the engine into this position?

Keith

So are you installing the distributor and plug wires or wiring the car because it doesn't matter where the piston is to start a car? You need to know where TDC is for installing the distributor but that is it.

TheFrog wrote:Kind of new to this stuff; is the "dizzy" the distributor?
Let's see, just to make sure I understand this correctly:
*I pull the #1 spark plug out and then turn the crank until the #1 piston is at the top of it's stroke, correct?

Just to clarify, just because the piston is at the top does not mean that is where you drop in the dist. It needs to be on the compression stroke not the exhaust stroke. If you put it in on the wrong stroke it won't work.

*One of my neighbors said that I needed to make sure the number one distributor plug made a straight line with the number one cylinder. What the heck does that mean?

Not to sure what this means but #1 is going to be where ever it is and it might not be pointed straight at #1 cyl.

This is great guys!!!! Thank you all for your help. Keep it coming. Being able to learn this stuff from passionate people is really refreshing!

Well guys, I think I got it. The dizzy is all the way in with the rotor tip pointing to the #1 wire, as is the timing marker lining up with the 10 degree mark on the balancer. I also believe it is on the compression stroke because I went with the "paper towel" technique of watching the air blow the paper out of the #1 spark plug hole. Man, this is pretty awesome stuff! Hopefully soon I will have it running! Thanks again for all of your help! If anyone can think of anything I missed, feel free to let me know.

Frog I went out today and check the wiring on my 69 F100 the A wire is run to the positive side of the soliniod and the I wire is run in to the key switch I rewire it quite a few years ago I was thinking my memory was right last night.


Jim

Take note of what's being said because any time you build an engine up you will have to do this, even at that. If you have to replace the distributor or have to pull it out for whatever reason, you now have the skills to go outside and fix it yourself in a matter of minutes. By the way, when your neighbor said something about the #1 wire lining straight up, I think he meant the #1 wire needs to be lined straight up with the ROTOR.

When you start learning this kind of stuff it gives you a better realization of HOW things work and helps you troubleshoot problems.

bb, you're exactly right! Having my hands in all of this is giving me a mental picture of how everything works and why it works. I don't know about you guys, but the more I learn about engines, the more fascinated I am by them.

Jim, yeah, I also spoke to a guy who builds wiring harnesses about this and I found out that what I was missing in my understanding was the link the regulator, alternator and solenoid have between them. What I ended up needing to do was to run 10 gauge wire from the A terminal on the regulator to the Battery terminal on the alternator. Then, I needed to run 10 gauge wire from the Battery terminal on the alternator to the Battery terminal on the solenoid. Pretty crazy!

I think all I have left now is to ground the engine to the body and the frame, mount the alternator and get the belt tightened up correctly, hook up the hoses to the radiator, put antifreeze in, put oil into the engine and hook the battery cables up. I think it'll be ready to be fired up after this. At least I hope..lol!

TheFrog wrote:.....I don't know about you guys, but the more I learn about engines, the more fascinated I am by them......

That's how it starts Ask questions and pay attention to what is being said when questions are answered for others. Just be a sponge and take it all in when the experts are talking at the machine shop, on here, ect. You'll learn a lot, a lot of stuff that you won't find in any shop book or manual.

Well, I have some good news and bad news.
The good news is, I turned the ignition switch today and heard noise coming from the engine bay!..lol!
The bad news is, I have a leak in my water pump gasket, and the noise coming from the engine bay was not the sound of the engine firing up!
Here's what happened. I went to fire up the motor, heard one click when the ignition switch was in the "on" position and heard one other click when the ignition switch was in the "start" position. However, that was it. Nothing else happened.
Let me know if I'm thinking this through correctly. Since there was only those two sounds, I'm thinking the starter motor is not engaging, as if it isn't getting power. Does this sound like a possible cause?
Another question: Is the starter motor supposed to be grounded? If so, from which post; "R" or "S"?
Thanks,
Keith

Is there a solenoid on the starter or just on the fender?

The starter grounds when you bolt it on. The typical Ford setup has one 4 gauge wire from the right side of the starter solenoid to the one post on the starter. Just take a test light and put it on the starter post/right side of starter solenoid while you have someone turn it over and see if you have power there. Next would be to grab a volt meter and see how many volts you are getting there.

Why don't you post up a picture of your solenoid wiring.

I have a solenoid on the fender and I believe there is a solenoid on the starter as well.

Yep, that's exactly how I have it all wired up.

I take it that getting only the clicks I mentioned means the starter is the problem?

Interesting. Seeing that the starter bolts onto the transmission, does that mean that the transmission should be grounded to something?

I'll try to get a pic of how I have everything wired up.
Thanks!

Are you sure there is a solenoid on the starter as well? That is a rare option on a Ford but they did have some on the 460's. I couldn't find a specific 460 starter pic but this will give you an idea of what it should look like. When there is a solenoid on the starter there will be your large 4 gauge wire plus a smaller wire to activate the solenoid. On the Ford unit (IIRC) there is just a brass piece that goes from the big stud to the smaller stud instead of having a separate wire. Regardless there needs to be power at the small stud as well to activate the solenoid. Put a test light on the stud and see of power is getting to the starter. Check both studs on the starter for power. You could have the fender solenoid working (causing the clicking) and the starter unit not working.



Brass jumper

Below is a pic of the fender unit. To start the car you need the two big posts wired and key power to the S terminal.



If you are working by yourself you can buy a remote starter switch from KD Tools or Lisle. You just clip it on the Battery terminal and the S terminal and you will be able to hold the test light and try to start the vehicle at the same time. Poor folks can also just grab a screw driver and jump the two terminals that way but I recommend the switch.

TheFrog wrote:
Interesting. Seeing that the starter bolts onto the transmission, does that mean that the transmission should be grounded to something?
Thanks!

There should be at least 1 ground strap from the engine/transmission to the frame and body. If not it could cause your problem as well..

I think you might have solved my problem jasonf. The starter you showed looks exactly like the one I have and it does have the brass jumper. However, I only have the one wire running to it coming from the solenoid. As is, I have power going to the largest of the three studs. Do you happen to know which of the two smaller studs needs power from the solenoid as well? They are labeled "R" and "S".

The fender solenoid is exactly like the one I have and it is wired the way it is shown on your picture. I really think this might be my problem. Once I figure out which smaller stud needs solenoid power, I should be set.

As far as grounds go, I have the engine grounded to the body and frame. I think this should work as long as I got my contact points clean enough.

Thanks!!

TheFrog wrote:However, I only have the one wire running to it coming from the solenoid. As is, I have power going to the largest of the three studs. Do you happen to know which of the two smaller studs needs power from the solenoid as well? They are labeled "R" and "S".

The fender solenoid is exactly like the one I have and it is wired the way it is shown on your picture. I really think this might be my problem. Once I figure out which smaller stud needs solenoid power, I should be set.

The brass jumper should go from the large stud on the starter to the "S" terminal on the starter. If the brass jumper is there then you don't need anymore wires. There should be just one battery cable from the fender solenoid to the starter solenoid. The wire going to the large post on the solenoid is a 4 gauge battery cable right? It can't be no dinky 14 gauge stuff.