Need help---starter problems---460 to Powerglide trans.

KY JELLY wrote:The sticker could have been put on the wrong side of the flexplate . Is it offset towards the block or the transmission ?

Not sure, but I do know when I put everything together, the mounting pads for the torque converter were only 1/8th of an inch from the flexplate, but rotated freely, so I assumed it was correct. If it was on backwards I would assume the pads would have hit the flexplate before the bellhousing contacted the block, OR the foot pads would have been much further then 1/8th inch away from the flexplate when bolted up.

In any case, if I do need to pull it apart, I will check it regardless to see how it would fit--as this is something I could quickly eliminate as the problem by just test fitting it that way.

I run an ati 1/2" adapter plate with the converter adapter so I am not assuming I am just telling you how mine is made. The main flex plate body is a soild piece and the ring gear is offset to one side on the main body to make up for the thickness of the spacer.

I went through this years ago because I purchased this adapter plate from transmission specialties and they spray painted an ati flex plate to cover up the fact they were selling their (ati's) parts even though the converter pilot had ati etched in it . They spray painted over the sticker so I had to figure that out myself. Its a lot easier to see with an adapter plate because you can install the starter with just the engine there.

The converter needs to be spaced separately after the block is bolted to the transmission . It should be "right" if you buy a package like you did , but there probably is some variance in transmission and crank shaft actual measurements so it is ok and better to have a little clearance to make up for thrust issues and such.

Its hard to tell from your pic , but I am almost 100% sure the flexplate is on backwards it looks like its offset to the transmission and away from the block.

Ok I checked the flexplate, the offset appears to be the exact amount of the adapter, towards the engine. So, if I turn it around, the ring gear will be further away from the engine, and make the problem worse---so the flexplate is on correctly. But the more I look at it, the more it seems if I just remove the adapter ring it would line up pretty good, then I would just have to fill the extra space to the converter with some washers---like Jbozzelle said.

This still doesn't fix the depth issue. I am going to try another starter to see if there is any difference. Thanks KY JELLY for the feedback.

One last thing-- I looked up the part # of the starter I have, Hitachi PE103---it does list BBF, but "Late Model". It does not make a distinction between auto or manual trans. Is there a difference between a "late model" 460 and earlier versions? Could it be as simple as I had the wrong starter from the beginning?

No way for me to know..........I've been away from the bastard starters for years.......and for a very good reason..,..if the '95 460 truck starter[auto. trans] does not do a great job......it's time to look elsewhere.

Lem Evans wrote:No way for me to know..........I've been away from the bastard starters for years.......and for a very good reason..,..if the '95 460 truck starter[auto. trans] does not do a great job......it's time to look elsewhere.

bastard starter.....

If you ditch the adapter to move the flexplate closer to the crank you'll still need a crank pilot adapter of some sort to keep the converter pilot centered in the back of the crank.

jbozzelle wrote:If you ditch the adapter to move the flexplate closer to the crank you'll still need a crank pilot adapter of some sort to keep the converter pilot centered in the back of the crank.

my pilot adapter goes on the converter.i've never saw a ring like that for a pilot but they's a lot i aint seen.

Cool - I had the same issue with my Tilton starter - which is a Hitachi - I ended up changing the drive end housing to an FE housing to get the right "stick-out" on the starter gear. never has made sense to me - but that fixed it and I haven't had a problem for several years 598 at 14.4:1.
Kurt

I measured how much the gear comes out relative to the mounting surface, and its exactly 1 inch. It needs to come out another 1/8th-1/4 inch to be perfect---I ordered another starter from another manufacturer, but if its the same, I took my Hitachi starter apart and I can modify the mounting surface to get at least another 1/8th inch. I have a feeling it just may be the starter---your comment gives me hope the new starter may be a little different. We will see.

psfracer wrote:I measured how much the gear comes out relative to the mounting surface, and its exactly 1 inch. It needs to come out another 1/8th-1/4 inch to be perfect---I ordered another starter from another manufacturer, but if its the same, I took my Hitachi starter apart and I can modify the mounting surface to get at least another 1/8th inch. I have a feeling it just may be the starter---your comment gives me hope the new starter may be a little different. We will see.

you can mod. the starter by removing the 2 bolts use in clocking the starter and remove the nose then machine around the lip of the mounting the outer area where the bolt flange is

quick 52 wrote:

psfracer wrote:I measured how much the gear comes out relative to the mounting surface, and its exactly 1 inch. It needs to come out another 1/8th-1/4 inch to be perfect---I ordered another starter from another manufacturer, but if its the same, I took my Hitachi starter apart and I can modify the mounting surface to get at least another 1/8th inch. I have a feeling it just may be the starter---your comment gives me hope the new starter may be a little different. We will see.

you can mod. the starter by removing the 2 bolts use in clocking the starter and remove the nose then machine around the lip of the mounting the outer area where the bolt flange is

Yep, that is exactly what I was looking at. I could remove 3/16ths of an inch pretty easily.

or you can mill the bell in the starter mount area than if you need to shim you can make shims

Are you running a midplate? I'd call ATI and pick their brain. I think they tried to kill two birds with one stone in designing the crank adapter. I think their crank adapter setup is made for a midplate of the same thickness where the starter bolts to the BELLHOUSING, not the midplate.... Since you don't have a midplate you don't need the spacer.

I machined mine also too give me the correct depth. Isn't this fun being a racer and a engineer all at the same time

I think he just has a starter that is not built right. All of their adapters are built to locate the flex plate ring gear forward where you can locate the starter at the block face. The adapters fit the crankshaft snug and provides a very solid pilot for the converter. I personally do not see why anyone that was intending to run a mid plate would use the bellhousing adapter , a standard glide case is a lot more economical to use and you already have the midplate if you buy the kit .

OK. So their flexplates do have the ring gear offset back forward to make up the difference?

Yes ,that is the thing though you are committed to using their flex plates if you use their adapter or bell housing too I suppose. Unless you do some machine work.

Damn. I just bought an ATI case and CHEVY bell. Wonder if I'll have problems? I talked to ATI before I ordered it and they said no problems.... This new case and bell is replacing a stock case glide and JW Chevy bell. The midplate adapts the BBF to the Chevy bell.

John,

You're set-up should be fine..

We'll find out next week. The case and bell came in today. Dropping it off at the shop on Monday to get the internals swapped over.

If you got the ATI supercase and the bellhousing, then it should be no different at all.

I am running their flexplate, which is offset towards the engine the same amount as the adapter ring pushes the flexplate out---so it has nothing to do with the bellhousing.

I am trying a new starter this weekend and I will report back if that fixes the problem or not.

Well the new starter turns over the engine great---no more grinding, its perfect.........

BUT

Its a different style of starter and one of my header tubes does not clear it.

Is it the Ford truck starter.

No, I went with this one: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-820048-M/

3.1 hp motor, 4.44 gear reduction. I turns over my 16:1 572 with no problems.