Any roofing guys on here?

The wind/rain storm that came through here a few weeks ago pulled off a bunch of shingles resulting in some water damage.

I just couldn't force myself to pay good money into these ridiculous insurance deductibles just to have someone install what amounted to only about $50 in materials, so I decided to try replacing the damaged/missing shingles myself. To my surprise replacing the shingles was amazingly simple & easy for me to do, the internet & youtube was a big help researching how to do it.

So far no leaks from the new shingles I installed.
Hopfully they will continue to be good as more storms are expected through here soon.



But I do have a few questions.......

Why is it suggested that roofing cement (aka "goop" ) be put on the nail heads when only a few shingles are replaced, but no goop is used on the nails when a whole new roof (& tons of shingles) is installed? Isn't the nail a possible water path that should be sealed in either situation?

Also while doing the repairs I noticed that whomever installed the roof years ago put a lot of nails in the wrong place on a lot of shingles (too far up the shingle). And there was also some shingles up there that were installed with less than the "suggested" number of nails per shingle, making it much easier for the wind to lift said shingles. Is this crappy work unfortunately common in the industry, or is it just a few bastard hacks out there?

seen my roofing buddy use silicone in a caulking gun for repairs.....used it on my spot repairs with good results...hope this helps

TA31

Just had my Roof replaced last fall. My Current contractor Told me the last roof was only put on with 2 nails per shingle, when it's should of had 4 per shingle. He said it's surprising it lasted this long 20 yr's.

But the new roof has 4 nails per shingle ..
Life is Good here in Wisconsin.



Dan

The nails are there to hold the shingles on until they melt together. I've seen plenty of shingles installed with only 2 or 3 nails. A couple years ago, I was helping a buddy replace his roof, and looked over at his neighbors house and noticed how badly the shingles were installed. They just started nailing them on without any string lines, or even a tape measure. It had a 2' wave up and down and back up from one side to the other.

The nails properly placed will outlast the shingles and will not become a wick for water. They are very important and are the only thing that hold them on. The seal strips are simply used to prevent wind from creasing them at the exposure line. You should have a minimum of 4 nails per shingle and 6 if you're in a high wind area. It is best to use a roofing cement under to old shingles to help them seal the the new ones, as the old seal strips are no longer viable. The hardest thing about roofing is 2 story, steep and heat.

Also, don't use an air nailer. It will drive the nail head below the surface of the shingle and then the fastener is no longer a fastener, just a dowel. Pnematics are for mechanics, hammers are for carpenters. Don't hire a mechanic to build your house.

richter69 wrote:TA31

damn shingles would be there forever lmao

Curt wrote:Also, don't use an air nailer. It will drive the nail head below the surface of the shingle and then the fastener is no longer a fastener, just a dowel. Pnematics are for mechanics, hammers are for carpenters. Don't hire a mechanic to build your house.

They are adjustable. We’ve used air nailers for years. You can set them however you want. Most good roofers that use them know this. BUT you do get the occasional idiot who just nails them in at 100psi and they shoot all the way through.

the last house that we did was for a church member. my brother and I did one side of the house and the "older" men did the other side. they used 4 or 5 nails per shingle, which is good, but we only used three. It was on a trailer house and I figured that any wind that would take those off would hurt the house anyway. well, fast forward to last week. strong thunderstorm rolls through. the side we did is unhurt but the other side has multiple leaks. so who knows.

roofing guns are fine when used correctly just like any tool. I have roofed many roofs with a gun and no problems. As whatbumper said you adjust the pressure to make the nail correct.

The number of nails depends on where you live, California say's 4 is sufficient and Florida wants 6, we generally do 4-5 here in SE Missouri and have no problems.

The only reason to use a selaer on a repair is because the sealer strip on the old shingle may be wore out and the sealer will make the shingle stick down just as the sealing strip will do on a new shingle

plowboy34 wrote:roofing guns are fine when used correctly just like any tool. I have roofed many roofs with a gun and no problems. As whatbumper said you adjust the pressure to make the nail correct.

The number of nails depends on where you live, California say's 4 is sufficient and Florida wants 6, we generally do 4-5 here in SE Missouri and have no problems.

The only reason to use a selaer on a repair is because the sealer strip on the old shingle may be wore out and the sealer will make the shingle stick down just as the sealing strip will do on a new shingle

X2

Curt wrote:The nails properly placed will outlast the shingles and will not become a wick for water. They are very important and are the only thing that hold them on. The seal strips are simply used to prevent wind from creasing them at the exposure line. You should have a minimum of 4 nails per shingle and 6 if you're in a high wind area. It is best to use a roofing cement under to old shingles to help them seal the the new ones, as the old seal strips are no longer viable. The hardest thing about roofing is 2 story, steep and heat.

Also, don't use an air nailer. It will drive the nail head below the surface of the shingle and then the fastener is no longer a fastener, just a dowel. Pnematics are for mechanics, hammers are for carpenters. Don't hire a mechanic to build your house.

This is excellent advise. If you want it fast, air nail. If want it right, hand nail. Follow the shingle manufactures instructions for installation which are on the back of every shingle bundle. I am not a roofer but I have done a lot of roofing. I used to specialize in fixing leaks no one else could find.

In the State of CT the specifications for DOT/DPW roofing jobs prohibit air nailing. There is a reason. It is possible to get a quality air nailed job. It just isn't likely. The vast majority of roofs installed with air nailers remind me of Sonny Corleone at the toll booth.

For the record, I air nailed the roof on my house but I covered the entire thing with ice and water shield and I like to think I know what I am doing.

I did some back in the day when I was in High School. The old guy that taught me said the number of nails to use really depends on how many tabs the shingle has. Such as a 3 tab would get four, one at either end about 1" from the edge of the shingle and the other two, above the cutouts. Nails should be placed just below the asphalt line. That job I do not miss, started out hauling bundles up the ladder, slung over my shoulder. At the end of the day my shoulders looked like hamburger. We didn't have no fancy conveyor belt like they use now.

TommyK wrote:.....The vast majority of roofs installed with air nailers remind me of Sonny Corleone at the toll booth......

Interesting info, thanks guys.

They were just normal 3 tab shingles, Going off the directions on the shingle bundle I mostly used the suggested 4 nails per shingle placed just below the asphalt/seal line. There was a few shingles here & there that got 6 nails just for the hell of it.

There are a few of the old shingles I still need to look at later this week after the rain gone. They look to have a raised "peak" in the center that I'm guessing is a nail head working it's way back up-out of the underlying shingle. There doesn't appear to be any leaks from these areas at this time, but I might as well take a look at them anyway.

whatbumper wrote:

Curt wrote:Also, don't use an air nailer. It will drive the nail head below the surface of the shingle and then the fastener is no longer a fastener, just a dowel. Pnematics are for mechanics, hammers are for carpenters. Don't hire a mechanic to build your house.

They are adjustable. We’ve used air nailers for years. You can set them however you want. Most good roofers that use them know this. BUT you do get the occasional idiot who just nails them in at 100psi and they shoot all the way through.

the last house that we did was for a church member. my brother and I did one side of the house and the "older" men did the other side. they used 4 or 5 nails per shingle, which is good, but we only used three. It was on a trailer house and I figured that any wind that would take those off would hurt the house anyway. well, fast forward to last week. strong thunderstorm rolls through. the side we did is unhurt but the other side has multiple leaks. so who knows.

I inspect damaged roofs for a living and have been on more roofs this year than any roofer in the last 5. The term "most good roofers" could be 1 in a 1000, that would make most communities lacking a good roofer. The occasional idiot would be the other 999. I can go behind any "good roofer" and point out installation errors. It's a shame because the directions are on every bundle and written in English.

In a storm, the windward slope will always be worse than the leeward. It's not by accident, its what happens.

I can go behind any good roofer and point out installation errors Wow thats awesome your the only roofer in the world that knows how to install them the right way you must be proud

nuclearcobra wrote:I can go behind any good roofer and point out installation errors Wow thats awesome your the only roofer in the world that knows how to install them the right way you must be proud

I'm not a roofer. I'm the guy that makes them come back and do it right. I just know how the manufacturer wants them installed. It takes a couple of extra minutes to do it right. Same reason not every machine shop can be consisdered a top notch builder. American labor is mostly lazy and will do anything to make the job easy. Plus, not much quaility control on roofs. The people that can and will get on the roof, don't know if they were put on right.

Again, the instructions are on every bundle,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but they are written in English.

Just busting your chops Curt I'm sure you see a lot of crap work out there,My main business is drywall and the framing we see is a joke 95% of the time thats why i laugh at the term warranty work like i tell the builders mud and tape isn't gonna hold tons of lumber from moving around and they know it they just don't want to hear it.

Curt wrote:

whatbumper wrote:

Curt wrote:Also, don't use an air nailer. It will drive the nail head below the surface of the shingle and then the fastener is no longer a fastener, just a dowel. Pnematics are for mechanics, hammers are for carpenters. Don't hire a mechanic to build your house.

They are adjustable. We’ve used air nailers for years. You can set them however you want. Most good roofers that use them know this. BUT you do get the occasional idiot who just nails them in at 100psi and they shoot all the way through.

the last house that we did was for a church member. my brother and I did one side of the house and the "older" men did the other side. they used 4 or 5 nails per shingle, which is good, but we only used three. It was on a trailer house and I figured that any wind that would take those off would hurt the house anyway. well, fast forward to last week. strong thunderstorm rolls through. the side we did is unhurt but the other side has multiple leaks. so who knows.

I inspect damaged roofs for a living and have been on more roofs this year than any roofer in the last 5. The term "most good roofers" could be 1 in a 1000, that would make most communities lacking a good roofer. The occasional idiot would be the other 999. I can go behind any "good roofer" and point out installation errors. It's a shame because the directions are on every bundle and written in English.

In a storm, the windward slope will always be worse than the leeward. It's not by accident, its what happens.

All I know and you do too is that here in Texas most roofing crews can show up on the job site in a 1993 two door pontiac grand-am so I'm sure you are correct about your assessment of good roofers. All I do now is put metal roofs on for people and that is really a field that any idiot can do. I will never lay another shingle on a house that I own, only metal.

Watch it now. If there is any Chops busting to do, I will take care of it.

Curt wrote:Watch it now. If there is any Chops busting to do, I will take care of it.