Waste Oil

It seems the WMO is harder on the supply pump side of things, this could also be where some of the issues arise as well.

Be nice if after 20k miles or so a guy could pop the heads off and look everything over to confirm there is no harm being done.

I'm sure done properly its fine, just that for most people its a lot of "hassle".

bbf-falcon wrote:Just because you don't work on them doesn't mean that nobody runs it in their diesels

nice contribution to the topic................

jsracing wrote:I dont think Id try it in a newer vehicle. This is experimental at least as far as I am concerned. We will find out though. I get all kinds of strange looks at the gas pump. Putting gasoline in a diesel? People call you dumb, stupid, or insane.

I cant take any credit if it works or doesn't, Ive been watching some guys do it for a year, and finally decided to take the plunge.

We wouldnt have engines if someone hadn't tried something experimental at some point.

Just a thought Jerry... if you were to mix your RUG in the barrels of waste oil and recirc/filter it, you might get a slightly more consistant blend in a 55 gallon drum compared to trying to mix in your tank. This will also allow your mixing pumps and filters to have a thinner consistancy to deal with and help the filtering pump last longer.

I don't know all the details, but understand some of the basics. Some newer vehicles have a sensor that checks the fuel, if it is not somewhat transparent, it shuts things down... wmo being black will not work in them.

Jon- you mention the wmo is harder on the supply pump side of things. Is this due to the thickness, contaminants... or something else that is simple enough to explain on the net?

The thicker WMO is not real kind to the fragile electric lift pump that the truck came with. It seems the older trucks with the mech pumps put up with it better. Its also a deal where the filters could get plugged and cause supply issues as well. I have not seen or heard of a sensor that looks for color, so I cannot comment on that. I know around these parts DOT can and will dip your tanks, Red dyed off road fuel will get you a serious fine, not sure how WMO would come up on the test.

I have considered doing this myself as i have an endless supply of WMO, used tranny fluid etc, and could keep it sorted and filtered entering into the clean containers etc. But honetly for the amount of diesel i burn it would be a lot of work for minimal gain and possible dmamage that it may or may not cause.

I have a good friend in Kansas that makes his own biodiesel, they burn a lot of fuel and even at that the savings are minimal...........

I have not used any in my truck as of yet, but I am processing some to use later. Mine is an old 6.9 non turbo deal, so there is less to be lost if something goes wrong. I have talked to many people that are using it and there are many different levels of education and experience with it.

Jon, how often would you recommend fuel filter replacements for the older IDI rigs, compared to the 7.3 powerstrokes.., basic drivers with occasional car towing? Are there some filters you would recommend over others? If I decide to go this route, I would like to be ahead of the filter changing game, and probably change more often than pump fuel. You are also correct about the technical aspects of being used on a road truck, I am sure they would love to have their portion of the taxes you owe for the fuel you are making. I haven't heard of ADOT dipping tanks on light duty trucks, but I am sure it is possible and expensive when they find something other than #2 in the tank.

I read a lot of info on this, and realize that I sort of have to use some common sense about the data they provide you and take it with a grain of salt, IMHO. Someone that says they have used it for less than 10,000 miles I would consider a newbie, and it would be hard to tell any major problems in that time. I have talked to guys that say they dump trans fluid directly after removal without filtering, or mix 15% RUG or more and it works great, that they filter it to 5 microns and that is cleaner than pump fuel...or that is the only fuel they use. That is all fine and good, but I doubt that passing 5 micron pieces of band material or bearing material is cleaner than pump fuel. Using the centrifuge helps, but there is also the part of the settling process that many of the more experienced guys recommend doing for a couple months per batch. Like someone mentioned earlier, my plan would be for longer road trips where it burns faster and there would be less long term contact with parts that deteriorate.

It's funny, (weird not humorous), that when I asked around about this, I got a few "wide eyed" stares.
One guy I talked with who operates a sugar beet farm uses the dyed red off-highway fuel oil in his regular truck but, spikes it with the darkest, (but filtered), drain oil he has until the color of it shows brown.

All this for a few bucks and the chance of things "not good" happening.

richter69 wrote:

bbf-falcon wrote:Just because you don't work on them doesn't mean that nobody runs it in their diesels

nice contribution to the topic................

Just stating facts

or there aint no one doing it around these parts.......... in a powerstroke..........

Tell ya what Rick, you try it for a while and considering your luck if it turns out good then the rest of us should have no problems................

richter69 wrote:Tell ya what Rick, you try it for a while and considering your luck if it turns out good then the rest of us should have no problems................

Try it for more than 10,000 miles so we have some good info.

rmcomprandy wrote:It's funny, (weird not humorous), that when I asked around about this, I got a few "wide eyed" stares.
One guy I talked with who operates a sugar beet farm uses the dyed red off-highway fuel oil in his regular truck but, spikes it with the darkest, (but filtered), drain oil he has until the color of it shows brown.

All this for a few bucks and the chance of things "not good" happening.

its more thana few bucks do the math. waste oil you sacrifice a buck a gallon, then add 15% gasoline, still costs less than $150 a gallon..to make this witch's brew....... figure the savings over a year. maybe a tank a week whats that 35-40 gallons?

grab a calculator!

I thought he was referring to the guy using red-dye fuel to save a small amount of cash. The "not good" part of that scenario would be the fines and possible impound fees.

Jerry,

What's your formula for mixing the gasoline with oil? Is there a website I can read up on it at? I might try this on my 2001 7.3. Mine needs a set of sticks anyway so what's it going to hurt???

You guys are mixing gasoline with the WMO?

Jon, from what I have read, it can be mixed in small quantities for thinning purposes, if needed. It helps the pump you use to filter and recirulate live longer, as well as the filter, by cutting down on blowing out the media. I guess if you had a lot of 90 weight, you might use more, but the oil I have collected is not thick enough to warrant more than maybe 5%. That 15% seems a bit high to me, and it has been recommended to add it in a 55 gallon drum and recirculate it well. From what I recall, stale gas is good to use as the octane rating is lower, but I could be mistaken. Pumping it directly ito the truck doesn't keep things very consistant, imo.

Most of the info I have read is from thedieselstop.com , or links from there. Like I said, one needs to be careful as to who you take info from, as it seems to me, some folks just like to hear themselves talk. I have talked to 30 or more guys in the area that actually use some form of alt fuel in their truck here. Some have good data, some just want to say they have done it. None of them have done it with a 6.0 or 6.4, but have with a 7.3 or Duramax, and heavy equipment.

I would guess the lubricity from the WMO is high enough to counter the gasoline mix, any gas % in ULSD will score a set of HUEI injectors in a heartbeat, it will also tear up injectors and pumps used in the 6.4 really fast.

For sure I dont think I would use it in a vehicle with a DPF, those things can get plugged up from just running the wrong type oil in the crankcase.

richter69 wrote:You guys are mixing gasoline with the WMO?

i knew this old guy who always put gas in his VW truck.i dont know how much he mixed with it but he claimed better mpg and power.he did this for years,but it was a VW!

i have heard of some of the farmers doing this but a few have learned the hard way that you dont want to use any synthetic oil or it will cause problems with the injectors and pumps.

richter69 wrote:I would guess the lubricity from the WMO is high enough to counter the gasoline mix, any gas % in ULSD will score a set of HUEI injectors in a heartbeat, it will also tear up injectors and pumps used in the 6.4 really fast.

For sure I dont think I would use it in a vehicle with a DPF, those things can get plugged up from just running the wrong type oil in the crankcase.

BIO-diesel has a percentage of alcohol in it ... what is the LUBRICITY of that mixture ...?

rmcomprandy wrote:

richter69 wrote:I would guess the lubricity from the WMO is high enough to counter the gasoline mix, any gas % in ULSD will score a set of HUEI injectors in a heartbeat, it will also tear up injectors and pumps used in the 6.4 really fast.

For sure I dont think I would use it in a vehicle with a DPF, those things can get plugged up from just running the wrong type oil in the crankcase.

BIO-diesel has a percentage of alcohol in it ... what is the LUBRICITY of that mixture ...?

I couldnt tell ya, I do know they say to only use a small % of bio...............so that may be the reason. I have seen a dozen or so trucks (6.0) that had ran bio and the tanks delaminate and plug the filters, and in turn from the lack of supply cause the pintle springs to break in the injector. Once this happens it can be as small of a repair as replacing one injector to a complete engine...........

jbozzelle wrote:Jerry,

What's your formula for mixing the gasoline with oil? Is there a website I can read up on it at? I might try this on my 2001 7.3. Mine needs a set of sticks anyway so what's it going to hurt???

there are several websites you can visit. there is even a yahoo group on it, alot of info can be found at dieselstop.com forum..

Basically I collect it.

1. let it sit in barrells for a week or two then only take the top 2/3rds of the waste oil. ( later I combine all the left overs and start the process over again)
2. I mix it all in a huge 275 gallon plastic tote that I got from Mike.
3. I mix 35-40 gallons of reg unleaded in with 250 gallons of waste oil.
4. Mix it up and let it sit for two days. the gasoline seems to loosen any water that is trapped by the surficants ( detergents ) in the oil. So far ive been lucky not to have any at all. Plus the gas thins the oil down to diesel viscosity.

5. Crack bottom valve and let any sludge or water drain into a 5 gallon bucket. ( so far ive gotten none but i dont want to skip this step. ) Water is a killer. I forbid my guys with threat of unemployment if they put any antifreeze or water in the waste oil container.
6. Now I turn on the pump and let it filter through 2 whole house filters, first one being 30 micron and second being 20, then through a Golden rod water block filter, and back to the tank.
7. Filtering is your friend the more you do the better. I have no set time, I just figured the pump runs at 18 gpm so that should get the whole tank done in an hour. to be sure I let it go several hrs.
8. the whole house filters are not "absolute" filters. they will bypass.
9 I dont PUSH through any filters, all filters are on the suction side with the exception of the final filter that goes to the truck fuel tank.

10. when the 30 micron filters clog off, I replace them with a 20 micron in the first filter then a 5 micron string wound for the second. then I let that filter 8 hrs.
11. also in the loop is a CAT Diesel spin on 749-50 filter ( 5 micron ) it is an absolute ( no bypass ) so I built a bypass around it with schdeule 40 PVC. In fact the whole thing is done in schedule 40 3/4 inch PVC.
12. The final filtering is done with the bypass for this filter in the closed position. You can hear the pump change ( load up ) when it has to pull thru this filter.
13. I let it circulate thru this for another 4-5 hrs.

14 final filter is a smaller version of the cat spin on and it is in the line going to the truck. this final filter has NO byapss ( not even made by me ) so it REALLY slows the pump down! but nothing should get by it bigger than 5 microns. that is small.

I simple flip two valves and use the same pump to pump to the 90 gallon tank on my truck. I bought the hose bib from tractor supply as well as the water block filter. The two cat filters can be bought at any CAT dealer. and the two whole house filters can be bought at Lowes or menards. the pump was $230.00 at WW Grainger.

At this time I do not use a centrifuge although some folks do.

I can post some pics but might not be tonight.

jsracing wrote:Basically I collect it.

1. let it sit in barrells for a week or two then only take the top 2/3rds of the waste oil. ( later I combine all the left overs and start the process over again)
2. I mix it all in a huge 275 gallon plastic tote that I got from Mike.
3. I mix 35-40 gallons of reg unleaded in with 250 gallons of waste oil.
4. Mix it up and let it sit for two days. the gasoline seems to loosen any water that is trapped by the surficants ( detergents ) in the oil. So far ive been lucky not to have any at all. Plus the gas thins the oil down to diesel viscosity.

5. Crack bottom valve and let any sludge or water drain into a 5 gallon bucket. ( so far ive gotten none but i dont want to skip this step. ) Water is a killer. I forbid my guys with threat of unemployment if they put any antifreeze or water in the waste oil container.
6. Now I turn on the pump and let it filter through 2 whole house filters, first one being 30 micron and second being 20, then through a Golden rod water block filter, and back to the tank.
7. Filtering is your friend the more you do the better. I have no set time, I just figured the pump runs at 18 gpm so that should get the whole tank done in an hour. to be sure I let it go several hrs.
8. the whole house filters are not "absolute" filters. they will bypass.
9 I dont PUSH through any filters, all filters are on the suction side with the exception of the final filter that goes to the truck fuel tank.

10. when the 30 micron filters clog off, I replace them with a 20 micron in the first filter then a 5 micron string wound for the second. then I let that filter 8 hrs.
11. also in the loop is a CAT Diesel spin on 749-50 filter ( 5 micron ) it is an absolute ( no bypass ) so I built a bypass around it with schdeule 40 PVC. In fact the whole thing is done in schedule 40 3/4 inch PVC.
12. The final filtering is done with the bypass for this filter in the closed position. You can hear the pump change ( load up ) when it has to pull thru this filter.
13. I let it circulate thru this for another 4-5 hrs.

14 final filter is a smaller version of the cat spin on and it is in the line going to the truck. this final filter has NO byapss ( not even made by me ) so it REALLY slows the pump down! but nothing should get by it bigger than 5 microns. that is small.

I simple flip two valves and use the same pump to pump to the 90 gallon tank on my truck. I bought the hose bib from tractor supply as well as the water block filter. The two cat filters can be bought at any CAT dealer. and the two whole house filters can be bought at Lowes or menards. the pump was $230.00 at WW Grainger.

At this time I do not use a centrifuge although some folks do.

I can post some pics but might not be tonight.

That is a pretty good and thorough program from what I have read, Jerry. When you drain yours after settling, I assume you meant you have been lucky with no water... have you seen much in the way of "fallout" everyone talks about? Do you allow settling time between the stages of filtering(30/20 - 20/5), and if so, how long? You also mention adding gas at the pump... why do you do this?

longroofracer wrote:That is a pretty good and thorough program from what I have read, Jerry. When you drain yours after settling, I assume you meant you have been lucky with no water... have you seen much in the way of "fallout" everyone talks about? Do you allow settling time between the stages of filtering(30/20 - 20/5), and if so, how long? You also mention adding gas at the pump... why do you do this?

yes VERY lucky with no water, but then again I am the generator of the waste oil so I have some measure of control of what goes in it.

I havent noticed much in the way of fallout or sludge. I let it sit over nite and all day then before I turn the pump on for filtering, I crack the valve and let about a gallon run out. It seems a little thicker than what is on top but you cant tell much difference. I just do it to be safe

I dont add gas at the pump. I did on the first batch because it was still a little thick. When I first started this I did it in a 55 gallon drum and I was a few gallons off. I havent tried more than 20% yet, it seems to like it right there. I see alot of guys get greedy and try to ween it off the gasoline. I think that is a mistake. The stuff gets too thick if you do that making it hard to start.